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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Policy › A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody

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A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody (Read 28839 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Mar 10^th, 2003 at 6:15pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The following message has been sent to polygrapher Dee Moody by e-mail to dmoody7@cs.com and copied to reporter Erin Sherbert at esherbert@angnewspapers.com. Dear Ms. Moody: In an interview with San Mateo [County] Times staff writer Erin Sherbert published today (10 March 2003) under the title "The telling truth about polygraphs," you claimed that polygraphers can detect countermeasures: Quote: There are also countermeasures. With the Internet today, all you have to do is type in 'beat the polygraph' and you can find books for $100 on how to beat the polygraph. But polygraph examiners know about those books, and if they come in and use countermeasures, then we know it. I am not aware of any books on how to beat the polygraph that cost anything near $100. Could you tell me specifically which book you had in mind when you said that? In any event, AntiPolygraph.org offers a free book (The Lie Behind the Lie Detector) that, among other things, includes a detailed discussion of polygraph countermeasures. This book has been downloaded over 60,000 times and is probably the most widely read book on polygraph countermeasures (and indeed, about polygraphy in general). You say that polygraph examiners will "know it" if a subject comes in and uses countermeasures. But the available peer reviewed research on the subject suggests that even experienced polygraphers cannot detect countermeasures at better-than-chance levels. Indeed, the American Polygraph Association quarterly, Polygraph, in its 32-year history, has yet to publish a single article setting forth a reliable methodology for the detection of the kinds of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. Indeed, Polygraph recently published an article by Paul M. Menges, an instructor at the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute, arguing that it is unethical (and perhaps even seditious or treasonous) to make information about countermeasures available to the public, and suggesting that it should be outlawed. (See my "Response to Paul M. Menges Regarding the Ethical Considerations of Providing Polygraph Countermeasures to the Public.") So, I challenge you to either publicly support your claim that polygraph examiners will "know it" if countermeasures are used, or publicly retract it. An ideal way for you to demonstrate your confidence in your claimed ability to detect countermeasures would be for you to accept Dr. Drew C. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge, which as of today has gone 406 days without any taker. Sincerely, George W. Maschke AntiPolygraph.org
	« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2003 at 6:43pm by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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False + Senior User Offline Posts: 64 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #1 - Mar 10^th, 2003 at 10:17pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Excellent letter George, particularly cc'ing it to the reporter! I take it that none of these polygraphers peddling to the public via the press or TV shows have replied to you? I wouldn't be surprised if the recent uptake in the public spotlight of polygraphy is not entirely coincidental..


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Guest Guest	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #2 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 7:02pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George, If the polygraph kept a guy like you OUT of law enforcement then I say it is a priceless tool. As far as your free "Lie Behind The Lie Detector" guide, your own suckers tell the best story! Go to the Ed Gelb story and look at the success one of your clients had(see post # 55 on page two). Yes George, you did this moron a great service. Keep up the good work! Honest people have nothing to hide and do not need a service such as yours. However, as long as we have liars and cheats in our society, people like you George will always have something to do. I did enjoy reading some of the historical data on you site. I did not know that Sen. Kennedy was one of the co-sponsors of the Employee Polygraph Protection Act. I am also not suprised that the very thought of having to take a polygraph would scare the crap out of anyone in the Kennedy family!


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #3 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 7:18pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Guest, nothing in your post supports Dee Moody's claim that polygraph examiners will "know it" if countermeasures are used.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Anonymous Guest	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #4 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 7:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Guest, Your comments are not only boorish and lacking any substantive points, they are misplaced unless you believe there is some meaningful connection to the Dee Moody challenge. You actually reference the Ed Gelb thread, although you do little to clear up the focus of that thread, i.e., the matter of whether his Ph.D. degree is actually from a discredited diploma mill. Perhaps you might see if you could do a better job next time...


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Batman Very Senior User Offline Posts: 115 Joined: Jan 12^th, 2003	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #5 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 9:35pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	"So, I challenge you to either publicly support your claim that polygraph examiners will 'know it' if countermeasures are used, or publicly retract it." My George, aren't you the arrogant one. Who are you to tell anyone to publicly retract anything? You act as though this were some personal insult to you. All this crap about people's lives being ruined by polygraph is getting boorish. You know who recently had a life ruined? Try that young girl who had the wrong blood type organs transplanted into her body. SHE'S DEAD! Now that's a life that has been ruined. Why don't you attack the medical profession you twit? They screwed up royally. That girl died because of their screw-up. Her parents are grieving because of their screw-up. Why aren't you getting on your great white steed and attacking them George? Their errors cost people lives. I would think you would consider that a far greater slight against mankind than someone wrongly failing a polygraph. Polygraph examiners don't cut the wrong arteries. They don't amputate the wrong limbs. They don't prescribe the wrong medicines. They don't put the wrong organs in a patient’s body; hell they don't even leave their tools in the body. You've chosen the polygraph community as your target only because you failed one, and you don't think it was fair. You have admitted this. I once asked what you would be doing if you had not failed your polygraph exam, and you stated you'd be employed by either the FBI or the Agency, whichever one or ones it was that you applied to. So this great crusade of yours would never have taken place if you had passed, if you had gotten into the system. Oh, you're such a crusader George. Such a seeker of what's right, a real protector of the people. Well, you ain't no Ralph Nader, and you sure as hell aren't Ghandi. You're just a schmuck who couldn't break into the good old boy gang and now you're pissed. Go after a profession that really means something George. Attack something that really is a wrong. Get the balls to go after the really big fish, the ones that when they ruin a life, they really ruin it! Batman


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beech trees God Member Offline Posts: 593 Joined: Jun 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #6 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 10:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Sorry everyone, Official Batman Strawman Argument coming through, make way, make way...................... Bumpersticker recently seen on the Batmobile: Have you dodged your profession's responsibilities today?

	"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Batman Very Senior User Offline Posts: 115 Joined: Jan 12^th, 2003	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #7 - Mar 11^th, 2003 at 11:37pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Well, well, well, If it isn't George's little lap dog Beech Trees. Can always count on this loyal little poodle to come to George's defense and try to piss on the legs of his detractors. Well George, why don't you kick that little puppy off your lap and lower yourself to respond to the likes of me. If you don't stop him from humping the legs of your visitors he may get kicked in the nuts. So, for fear of repeating myself, All this crap about people's lives being ruined by polygraph is getting boorish. You know who recently had a life ruined? Try that young girl who had the wrong blood type organs transplanted into her body. SHE'S DEAD! Now that's a life that has been ruined. Why don't you attack the medical profession you twit? They screwed up royally. That girl died because of their screw-up. Her parents are grieving because of their screw-up. Why aren't you getting on your great white steed and attacking them George? Their errors cost people lives. I would think you would consider that a far greater slight against mankind than someone wrongly failing a polygraph. Polygraph examiners don't cut the wrong arteries. They don't amputate the wrong limbs. They don't prescribe the wrong medicines. They don't put the wrong organs in a patient’s body; hell they don't even leave their tools in the body. You've chosen the polygraph community as your target only because you failed one, and you don't think it was fair. You have admitted this. I once asked what you would be doing if you had not failed your polygraph exam, and you stated you'd be employed by either the FBI or the Agency, whichever one or ones it was that you applied to. So this great crusade of yours would never have taken place if you had passed, if you had gotten into the system. Oh, you're such a crusader George. Such a seeker of what's right, a real protector of the people. Well, you ain't no Ralph Nader, and you sure as hell aren't Ghandi. You're just a schmuck who couldn't break into the good old boy gang and now you're pissed. Go after a profession that really means something George. Attack something that really is a wrong. Get the balls to go after the really big fish, the ones that when they ruin a life, they really ruin it! Batman


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meagain Guest	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #8 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 12:10am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	...will someone please get boy George a job??? He is in desparate need for something to occupy his time in a productive manner!!!


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orolan Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 363 Joined: Dec 25^th, 2002	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #9 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 4:17am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Batman, it is sad that you would take advantage of that poor girl's death to advance your own cause. Just shows us all what you're made of. Those doctors and nurses did screw up, badly. But guess what. THEY KNOW IT AND ADMIT IT. You polygraphers, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge that your system is severely flawed, and you think you NEVER score an exam wrong. I know people who are living a life of hell because of polygraph tests that were scored wrong. People who went to prison because of it. And some people have KILLED themselves because of it. I myself could have gone to prison for 7 years because of one, were it not for me having a judge who has serious doubts about polygraphs. And for the record, a "challenge" is exactly that. A dare, or a strongly worded suggestion. George did not "tell" anyone to do anything.

	"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." &&U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
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triple x Very Senior User Offline Fear what you cannot see... Posts: 209 Location: USA Joined: Oct 16^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #10 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 5:43am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Damn Batman, Was all that really necessary? This website [message board] don’t upset you that badly does it crusader? I know that you don’t think or believe that the information outlined in “TLBTLD” is accurate now do you? After all, you particularly like to assert the “gift” of detecting polygraph countermeasures immediately, and with great ease… so I can’t help but wonder, What am I truly missing here, please help me out… I for one would never doubt your true super-powers enabling you to detect polygraph countermeasures. Superman can see through walls. It’s possible, that some people still believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and perhaps even the Tooth fairy. I actually believe, that you believe, you can truly perform this great feat. I do not dispute you. I’m sincerely convinced that you actually believe in your own chart-gazing ability. Seriously, you wouldn’t refute the fact that your talent is nothing short of a God given gift now would you Batman? I’m serious; you are truly gifted… There is absolutely nothing wrong with people believing in their individual fantasy. You just happen to believe that you can gaze upon a set of polygraph charts, (otherwise known as “chart-gazing” to the lay person) and detect countermeasures… Having said that… If polygraph countermeasures are rendered defenseless and futile against polygraph “chart-gazing” as you would like to have us all believe, then George is not posing harm to anyone, correct? If that’s your sincere position, then George is not placing anyone at risk, or in harms way. Remember, you claim that countermeasures are easily detected. If that is your “beef” with George, then where is the harm in his cause? If countermeasures are so easily detected, then why all the hubbub…?? “Knowledge is power” Would you have us believe that ignorance is superior to knowledge in any sense, regardless of the materiel under review? Triple x


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Marty Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 499 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2002	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #11 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 6:48am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	X X X, Quote: There is absolutely nothing wrong with people believing in their individual fantasy. You just happen to believe that you can gaze upon a set of polygraph charts, (otherwise known as “chart-gazing” to the lay person) and detect countermeasures… Well, XXX, I gather based on your later suppositions, it doesn't much matter to batman whether he can detect countermeasures - only that he persuade as many readers of this site as possible of his countermeasure omniscience. -Marty

	Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Skeptic God Member Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Jun 24^th, 2002	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #12 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 6:48am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Batman wrote on Mar 11^th, 2003 at 11:37pm: Well, well, well, If it isn't George's little lap dog Beech Trees. Can always count on this loyal little poodle to come to George's defense and try to piss on the legs of his detractors. Well George, why don't you kick that little puppy off your lap and lower yourself to respond to the likes of me. If you don't stop him from humping the legs of your visitors he may get kicked in the nuts. I wonder why George won't respond to such purile material. It truly is a mystery. Tell you what, "Batman" -- until you start acting just a tiny bit civil, you can count me in the ranks of those who have sworn you off, as well. Just because you're evidently pissed at the world is no reason to treat others as you do. You, sir, have some growing up to do. Skeptic


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The public Guest	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #13 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 7:18am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Who in the hell is George anyway? Is he a polygraph examiner? Has he actually given any polygraph tests? (Experience) Has he gone to polygraph school? (Training) Or is he just another pseudointellectual who thinks he can hide his ignorance behind a degree?


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triple x Very Senior User Offline Fear what you cannot see... Posts: 209 Location: USA Joined: Oct 16^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: A Public Challenge to Polygrapher Dee Moody Reply #14 - Mar 12^th, 2003 at 7:24am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Marty, You are absolutely correct, Batman's extraordinary super powers known as "chart-gazing" to the lay person, is nothing short of remarkable... I guarantee you; if 60 minutes II reporter, Mike Wallace knew of Batman’s incredible capability, they would be chasing him around for a demonstration, comments, etc., etc. George is certainly no match or threat to Batman's chart-gazing abilities. Any such polygraph countermeasure ploy against Batman, while connected to the “spirit-box” [polygraph machine to the lay person] would prove senseless, trivial and futile against the vast complex scribbling(s) interpreted unquestionably by Batman… Skeptic, well said. Regards, xxx


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