So what you are saying is you don't plan to lie unless they ask you about your drug use - which you admit would disqualify you - and then you will have to "fudge" a bit.

I was going to just let this rest, but something bothers me here. Lying about polygraph knowledge and the use of countermeasures seems to be generally accepted, if not condoned, on this board. Who then wants to be hypocritical by attempting to make me feel guilty over my situation. Is a lie not a lie? Is the chance of a fulfilling career, knowing that it's the last chance,  not worth lying about something as insignificant as smoking pot in a given timeframe? Everyone has skeletons. Fortunately for some, there are many moral issues that cannot be brought up.

Batman wrote on Feb 18^th, 2003 at 7:52pm:


compilot34,

As painful as this is, I have to agree with Batman on the issue of standards.  It should not be the world's fault that you smoked pot, and now you aren't eligible for the job you want.  I am a firm believer in standards, whether they be for admissions, security, etc.  The moment the standardis compromised, the system is weakened.

That being said, Batman's suggestion is probably the best for you -- be honest with the time frame.  Perhaps there is an unwitten rule behind the satndard which allows for such a situation.  But if you don't get the job, please don't blame the world for your mistake.

I'm not saying that you are a "bad person," but I disagree with your claiming this is an unfair standard.   It is unfair in your eyes.  If this standard were "unjust," I'd be on your side.  But this is your mistake.

If this job was that important to you, you should have known the admission stadards and lived accordingly.   You could still have a life in politics - it worked for our last president.

Chris

Could a cop arrest someone for beating their kids or hitting their wives if they have done this in the past themselves?  Can a cop give someone a ticket for an open container when they know they have done the same in their past? DUI,
Pissing in public, keeping incorrect change from the cashier, hitting someone, adultry, pornography, alcohol abuse(why is this legal?)verbal abuse,Speeding? (They break that law 100 times a day, sure it's technical, but nonetheless). That being said, where do you propose we find a couple million saints to do this job across the country? How many of those law virgins are going to work for $25K per year?

There are good and bad just like everything else in life. I know some that are as good as it gets, I know others that couldn't practice what they preach if their lives depended on it. The past is the past, it can't be changed. There are plenty of places that have a 2 year rule. Some folks can change their whole life in 2 years, some shorter, some longer. 

I used to run with the party crowd at an old job I had. I drank too much one night and took a hit off of a joint. Alcohol was involved in every time I ever did it. I got home late that night and needless to say, my wife wasn't a happy camper. It caused marital problems which in turn made me very aware of my priorities needing to be put back in order. I chose not to partake in that kind of behaviour from that point forward, haven't partied it up since! I believe that alcohol was the root cause of it all, so I contend it should be illegal as well as pot. It's mere politics that differentiate between the two anyway. Either way, my life is better now as a result of doing away with all of that crap.

My point was that almost everybody has done something that could effect how a polygraph turned out. Mine was a few uses of pot. It's all my fault, I blame no one else. I served more than long enough in the military to know about taking responsibility for my own actions. I wasn't looking for a sermon. If you guys are going to tell people it's ok to lie about polygraph knowledge and countermeasures then you can't tell someone not to lie about something else in the next breath. You tell that to the ones you "believe" are honest, yet you have no way of knowing they are. So is it ok for "honest" people to lie about the poly knowledge and countermeasures?
If many of them truly had nothing to hide, why would they be coming here looking for advice?  I know I'm a good person and could honestly answer everything but that one question. It's the only thing I've done wrong in my life.

The bottom line is that this bullshit shouldn't be used for hiring, period. If these weren't used for hiring, none of us would ever have to come here looking for ways to circumvent our past transgressions. The problem "users" would be eliminated through hair strand analysis and other measures. All other crimes would be discovered through a thorough background investigation. Potential employees are not criminals and the fact that so many honest people fail these damn things sickens me. I'd be here even if I believed I didn't have to tell a lie.

Mr. Fonda,

I loved you in Easy Rider dude!   

I know that by living in caves and hanging upside down I can get a bit disoriented, but your post down right confused the hell out of me.  I read it over a few times and my headache got worse with each reading.   

What are you talking about as it relates to my response to Compilot34?  Help me out here, please!


Compilot34,

Easy bud, I see a heart attack or worse coming on here!  Just go in and lay down the truth on whomever you're dealing with.  If they can't live with it, tough shit, but at least you won't continue to got through what you're putting yourself through right now.


Steincj,

Wow!  Does this mean I can call you Robin?

Batman

First of all, I apologize if someone chose to take it personally. I came to ask a simple question, which, after much reading through other posts, I see has been answered already. I am not "angry" at anyone. I just don't like self-righteous sermons. 
While there may be a few true saints on this forum, I am quite certain most people here are just as human and imperfect as myself. I just choose to be forthcoming about my past misdeeds and current intentions. If I thought for a second that the truth would prevail in this situation, I wouldn't have asked in the first place. My problem with this whole fiasco is that it seems people want to judge which lies are bad and which are ok. In a perfect world, none are ok. It's either black or white in Utopia. So someone tell me what justifies a lie?  If  the majority of people were completely honest with the control questions, wouldn't most of them fail? So we are told to lie because the polygrapher wants us to/expects us to, but these lies are only acceptable for the presumed "honest" people! That's the message I'm getting here. If I had been pointing fingers, I would surely have mentioned names. It wasn't personal.

I think you misunderstood my statement about background investigations. I was referring to their use, and that of drug testing, to weed out applicants in lieu of the poly. I don't believe in the polygraph for employment screening, never have.

No hard feelings intended guys!

compilot34

I believe that any applicant should be totally forthcoming in his or her attempt to acquire a job. This includes any DQ factors that may be painfully or embarassingly a part of one's history.  

I do not find fault with anyone who is honest on their application using countermeasures to ensure the results of the polygraph exam.  I would have trouble with someone who was deceitful on their application, and then used countermeasures to further skew the results of the poly.

So long as Americans are subjected to this type of luncay and witchcraft, I believe that those who are knowledgable, intelligent, and desire to further the good of our way of life here should not be denied employment paid for by my tax dollars.  The polygraph does, in fact, disqualify many honest people and in effect, robs this country of greatly needed assets.

Ultimately the choice to use countermeasures or not is yours.  

Best,