Dear Michelle,

Forget the dispatcher gig.  Join the air national guard! They take  legal amphetamines, and get paid to do it! Probably don't get subjected to polygraph torture, either.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_pilotpills021220.html

Sincerely,

Culo

Batman, confused. boy1der and Guest, (and any other anti-polygraph people who are interested) it is time we just let Michelle go on her merry little way.  I think she has even become an embarrassment for George and his folks (and this board)...you will notice that few of them have anything to say...my guess is that they probably just hope she tires and goes away.  She has created a diversion to the discussion at hand.  As difficult as it might seem to believe, I was actually prepared to "make nice" to her in the interest of engaging her in debate/discussion until she went off on me AGAIN (with the pig comment). True enough, I (and others) are guilty of bashing her, but in all honesty, I think it was a defensive thing (it was on my part I know). Just look thouhg, she rarely engages anyone in a meaningful dialogue before she eventually begins to "eat their lunch". She simply isn't worth our time. Little does she know that some years back, I expressed an interest in performing some research on people who were diagnosed with what was then called just ADD (attention defecit disorder)...later editions of the DSM have now added the hyperactivity portion, which I presume caused the designation to read ADHD (attention defecit with hyperactivity disorder).  My genuine concern at the time was that when we polygraph juveniles or adults who have been diagnosed with ADD, would they be able to focus (throughout the test) on the issues for which we were testing (at the time, I was thinking only crim issues). Anyway, I  read a great deal on the disorder and spoke with a number of parents whose children had been diagnosed with the disorder.  The scope of my study expanded when an adult told me that he had ADD (but that he had made the diagnosis himself based on what the doctors had told him about his child) I tehn spoke with a large number of medical, psychological and treatment professionals in a mental health center that specialized in this disorder.  At the time (and it may have changed since then), their belief was that a child if treated (medically and psychologically) properly will grow out of the disorder.  THEY told me that it was common for adults to claim ADD to rationalize their "bad" behavior.  They arranged for me to witness the interview some patients so that I could learn more. Some told the interviwers that they had "faked" some of the DSM criteria in order to obtain ritalin (which at the time was the only drug being prescribed) I honestly got the impression that these medical professionals viewed ADD as a serious problem with children, but more of a problem with adults because of the increasing incidence of "faking".  Quite frankly, before I began to look into this, I had never heard of such a disorder.  Anyway, at the time, they told me that there was but one pen and pencil diganostic assessment test (unfortunately, I cannot remember the name of the test) that had any degree of reliability for identifying bona fide ADD cases and for that reason, they did not feel that I would be able to properly identify/separate the imposters from those genuinely suffering from the disease, at least to the extent of being able to obtain a statistically significant sample.   To be sure, there are a growing number of medical and psychological issues with which we are now required to deal on a daily basis.  That is why the level of our training continues to be improved and new topics are added so that we will have a better grasp of the behaviors we see before us.  I have been told and honestly believe that SOME of the people we test these days, as little as 5-10 years ago, they would be institutionalized and not part of the general work force and hence subject to polygraph testing.  Because of the myriad of drugs available to physicians these days (i.e. Prozac) these people are part of the everyday work force from where our testing population comes.  I will close for now, but with the realization and full expectation that Michelle will no doubt fire across our bow (that was for you Two Block) with how little we know and how much she knows.  Guest was incredibly on the mark with his/her last post and I applaud him/her, but I doubt if you will silence her. She is too far gone for that. At least George, Mark and a couple others have taken an examination and in my estimation have earned the right to engage in a discussion about it....Michelle?...she is a burr under our saddle.

Torpedo....

I have stated that I am not giving any further AD/HD lectures to educate people such as yourself and I meant it.  However I find your post amusing.  I have to point out a few issues.

Just because you study an issue does not make you an expert.  Hell, you aren't even demonstrating expertise in polygraphs, others here seem to know far more than you.

As for adult faking AD/HD symptoms... hell yes, some do.  People are more apt to fake pain and receive Vicoden or Percocet.  Does that mean people across the board really don't have pain?  You need to engage in a few critical thinking skills because so far you are seriously lacking.

>>At the time (and it may have changed since then), their belief was that a child if treated (medically and psychologically) properly will grow out of the disorder.  THEY told me that it was common for adults to claim ADD to rationalize their "bad" behavior<<

Stats show that 75% of AD/HD children grow up to be AD/HD adults and if you had a freak'en clue you would realize that just because one has AD/HD that does not mean they demonstrate bad behavior.

Honest to goodness I fear for your targets at work.  You strike me as being the type of person that decides in the first 30 seconds of your encounter with a person if they will be *judged* innocent or guilty.

What a waste of air space you are.  And btw, you failed to answer the question I have posed.  You and your creepy little friends have done a poor job of redirection, perhaps you could answer the question instead of slamming anyone who disagrees with you.

Geez... have *some* amount of class, at least fake it if you have to.

Michelle.......naw!!! never mind, you  have proven mypoint....go away little girl you bother us!

Wow, everyone had a great weekend.  Since I have been absent I will try to hit everything then back out of this discussion.  Forgive me for jumping around and if I credit you with something not said I apologize ahead of time.

Marty, congrats you watch JAG.  I never said she was any type of drug user or abuser.  I just said she can't prove she isn't (check her post about betting Batman) an abuser simply by showing unused or unfilled prescriptions.

Two Block, yes I think alot of Politicians lie, maybe not all.  I think a Polygraph would be a good idea.  I also think we might want to test teachers.  Do I think they all lie?  No, at least most of them but we have all heard of the sex offender who got into a school district when they shouldn't have.

I choose carefully who I vote for and I do vote because my vote counts, just like anyone else's.

Again I never said Michelle was a drug abuser.

Skeptic, thank you and I actually agree with you on the points about what I said about Michelle and about some of Batman's statements about Michelle.

Marty, so far you haven't said anything worth replying to so I won't.  Thanks again Skeptic, with you I agree to disagree and will discuss anything with you but not here.

Guest well said and I think I will take your advice.

Alfred, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Michelle, I was not trying to offend you by leaving you for last, just have alot to say.  Sorry if you said somewhere in your posts if it was ok to lie or cheat/manipulate to get a job I missed it.  You said you would lie if asked about your medical condition (still don't think they will ask).  Then wanted to know how to "get around that".

You are really full of yourself, not everyone thinks AD/Hd'ers are drug abusers so quit painting everyone with the same brush.  You can have far less conversation than you have had here and understand the effects of Dex on most people with the condition.

I never doubted you had Rx for Dex.  I don't care.

How do you know "Polygraphers don't "get it".  You haven't even tested yet.  Your baseing all your opinions on something you have know knowledge of except what you have gotten from an anti-polygraph site.  Where else have you gone to "find out about Polygraph"?  All good researchers look at all sides before forming an opinion.  I doubt you will do that your mind is made up without even any first hand knowledge.  Please fill us in on your other research.  At least some of the poster's here have had a test on which to base an opinion.

Again it is you who bring up religion not me.  My God, your God, who cares?  I don't think it is right, moral or whatever term you want to use to lie or manipulate (cheat) to get a job.  Of course it my opinion, which I have a right to.  I think it is the opinion of the majority of the society we live in but again just my opinion.  When I said something in an early post relating to one of the commandments (again it was incorrect) it was only to make a point which I am sure you understood.  You are the one who went off on a side bar about "your God".  Obviously a better anology should have been used.  It might have prevented your smoke screen.

When you have properly researched Polygraph you might become knowledgeable but not an expert.   
You might even find that some Polygraph examiners share some of the concerns discussed on this site, even your own.  They might even have good ideas on how to address that issue so you wouldn't have to lie or attempt to manipulate the test.

not CONFUSED just tired.

Confused

I forgot to respond to part of the post to me "sex offender in schools". To me they are the worst of the lot because kids look up to their teachers. However, polygraph is not the answer here. A dull knife is. I don't believe many people could broach the subject without showing a great deal of blood pressure and also raising the other two polygraph points. As I type this,even, my rage hackles are raised from head to toe. It's a subject that I can't discuss without getting angry.

Torpedo

I personally think society has gone to hell in a hand basket. There are some of us, when it comes to this subject, has to just say to hell with society and take care of business. If the polygraph could only target molesters, then I might agree with you. However, given my limited experience with the polygraph, I just don't beleive it can distinguish between rage (anger) and lies. Do you think it can? Maybe this can give rise to a debate. I know anger makes my BP rise 20 points and my breathing gets fast and deep. Aren't these two of the three, with the third (galvanic) hinging on the first, criteria for DI?

As for old folks homes, I don't think you want to get me started on that one either. I have a 90 year sister in one. Not my choice I assure you. I just may have to take care of business there because the state regulatory agency will do nothing. They keep those old soles knock out with drugs so they won't have to mess with them and can eat the food provided by medicare.