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Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience? (Read 47225 times)
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #15 - Jan 20th, 2003 at 4:54pm
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Anonymous,

We could debate Clinton from now till dooms day.  Even though his degrees were real, his transgressions were far worse than any that Mr. Gelb may have committed in the arena of polygraph.  Even though I do not hold Mr. Gelb in very high esteem as it pertains to polygraph, he would have to tumble pretty far down the totum to reach Mr. Clinton's lowly position.

Batman
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #16 - Jan 20th, 2003 at 5:19pm
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Batman wrote on Jan 20th, 2003 at 4:54pm:
Anonymous,

We could debate Clinton from now till dooms day.  Even though his degrees were real, his transgressions were far worse than any that Mr. Gelb may have committed in the arena of polygraph.  Even though I do not hold Mr. Gelb in very high esteem as it pertains to polygraph, he would have to tumble pretty far down the totum to reach Mr. Clinton's lowly position.


I had no idea you were such a moral hardliner, Batman.  In my experience most people believe consensual affairs between adults, while certainly wrong, don't rise to the level of outright fraud.

BTW -- I'm glad you finally registered on the site.  You'd likely be a "very senior user" by now, if all your posts were counted Smiley

Now if we can just get "Anonymous" to register...

Skeptic
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #17 - Jan 20th, 2003 at 5:22pm
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Batman,

The big difference is that it can be (and was) argued that former President's Clinton's well known failings had little to do with his job performance (longest peace time economic expansion in history, 300 plus per cent growth in the stock market during the time he was in office, budget deficits becoming surpluses, etc).  The same is not true and can not be said for one who would qualify himself in expert testimony regarding his life's profession with phony academic degrees.  That is why I believe determining the truth about the matter is important.
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #18 - Jan 21st, 2003 at 6:55pm
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Anonymous,

I know this site is not really one for political debate, however it does, in a somewhat perverse way, center around discussions pertaining to truth and deceit; so I guess the topic of Bill Clinton does, in a way, fit right in.

I guess I can only ask that if a person is willing to accept the supposed good that occurred under Clinton's watch (economic growth, which in reality was a result of initiatives implemented years before) along with his utter contempt for the truth, then why would that same person be so against polygraph?  Even though it has its weaknesses, some good is derived from its use.  The "take the good with the bad" principle applies in both cases. 

Clinton lived his lies on a daily basis; they were and are in fact a matter of public record.  He betrayed the trust of the American Public, humiliated those closest to him, and displayed an utter disrespect for the very office he strove so hard to hold.

On the other hand, Ed Gelb's academic credentials are still open to debate.  I don't believe anyone has actually said, definitively, that his academic degrees are phony.

I guess, even if Mr. Gelb's degrees were phony, and if he has other failings, what does it matter, as long as it doesn't impact his job performance.  I suppose we can refer to this as "The Clinton Standard".  One can be a first class liar, cheat, and thief, but as long as the job gets done, well so be it.  Maybe it's OK to be these things, and still receive acceptance, if it's done on a more grand scale or larger stage. 

Let's kick the Ed Gelbs' around, but give a pass to the Bill Clintons'. 

Batman
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #19 - Jan 21st, 2003 at 7:41pm
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Batman,

I would think the polygraph community would be the last corporate body to criticize Bill Clinton for deceit.  I don't know how many lies or how frequently he told them, but I think we can rest assured that he did not tell as many as a polygraph examiner who lies every times he gives a CQT examination.
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #20 - Jan 21st, 2003 at 8:58pm
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Batman wrote on Jan 21st, 2003 at 6:55pm:
Anonymous,

I know this site is not really one for political debate, however it does, in a somewhat perverse way, center around discussions pertaining to truth and deceit; so I guess the topic of Bill Clinton does, in a way, fit right in.

I guess I can only ask that if a person is willing to accept the supposed good that occurred under Clinton's watch (economic growth, which in reality was a result of initiatives implemented years before) along with his utter contempt for the truth, then why would that same person be so against polygraph?  Even though it has its weaknesses, some good is derived from its use.  The "take the good with the bad" principle applies in both cases.


It probably is a very good thing that this isn't a political discussion forum, Batman.  If you think I'm ruthless with polygraphers, you should see how I am with dittoheads and freepers Wink

Regardless of what one thinks about Clinton (or Dubya, for that matter), for whatever real or imagined reason, the fact that someone worse than Gelb can be found is certainly beyond dispute.  It is also irrelevant to whether a man who has forged academic credentials should be touted as "beyond expert" in polygraph administration, or whether such a snake-oil salesman, as someone who was elected to serve as APA president, reflects poorly on the APA and the polygraph profession (or worse, is typical of both).

Skeptic
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Paste User Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #21 - Jan 22nd, 2003 at 3:47pm
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I called Dr. Gelb's office at (323) 932-0200 to inquire about his credentials, mentioning my association with AntiPolygraph.org and mentioning this message thread. Dr. Gelb was not available, but I left my home phone number and e-mail address with his office assistant, who said he would contact me.
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« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2003 at 8:11am by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #22 - Jan 23rd, 2003 at 2:13am
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Doctor Ed Gelb is a self-made man of tremendous integrity that has worked hard all his life to gain top position in such an honorable profession.   Dr. Gelb is someone whose word is never doubted, if you know him personally.  He is a man we all look up to and admire for his expertise and his interrogation skills.  In a profession that searches for the truth, Dr. Gelb is an inspiration to us all.

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #23 - Jan 23rd, 2003 at 8:05am
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I did not hear back from Dr. Gelb yesterday. This morning (23 Jan.) I sent him the following e-mail inquiry at egelb43972@aol.com. It is to be hoped that Dr. Gelb will soon lay the questions raised about his credentials to rest:

Dear Dr. Gelb,

My name is George Maschke, and I'm a co-founder of a website called AntiPolygraph.org (http://antipolygraph.org). Recently, a message was posted to AntiPolygraph.org's message board in which the legitimacy of your doctoral degree was called into question:

http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=Proc&action=display&num=10...

Specifically, it was suggested that you received your doctoral degree from a now-defunct diploma mill in Louisiana called LaSalle University, whose owner and founder, Thomas Kirk (aka Thomas McPherson), has since been convicted on federal fraud charges and sentenced to prison.

I called your office yesterday and left my name, phone number, e-mail address, and the reason for my call with your assistant (I believe her name was Vivian), but I did not hear back from you.

I would be grateful if you would clarify this matter by answering the following questions:

1) From what university did you receive your doctoral degree?

2) In what year did you receive your doctoral degree?

3) In what field was your doctoral degree?

4) What is the title of your doctoral dissertation?

5) Where can a copy of your doctoral dissertation be obtained?

Sincerely,

George W. Maschke
AntiPolygraph.org

Note: A copy of this e-mail message will be added to the above-linked message thread.
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #24 - Jan 23rd, 2003 at 8:17am
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Quote:
Doctor Ed Gelb is a self-made man of tremendous integrity that has worked hard all his life to gain top position in such an honorable profession.   Dr. Gelb is someone whose word is never doubted, if you know him personally.  He is a man we all look up to and admire for his expertise and his interrogation skills.  In a profession that searches for the truth, Dr. Gelb is an inspiration to us all.


Sue,

It is to be hoped that Dr. Gelb will confirm your vote of confidence in him by substantively addressing the questions I've e-mailed to him.
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #25 - Jan 23rd, 2003 at 4:33pm
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Quote:
Doctor Ed Gelb is a self-made man of tremendous integrity that has worked hard all his life to gain top position in such an honorable profession.   Dr. Gelb is someone whose word is never doubted, if you know him personally.  He is a man we all look up to and admire for his expertise and his interrogation skills.  In a profession that searches for the truth, Dr. Gelb is an inspiration to us all.


Sue,

Thank you for that enthusiastic endorsement of Ed Gelb's integrity, honesty, expertise, and abilities to interrogate. While we're waiting for Dr. Gelb to respond with his CV, may I ask, what is your relationship (other than an admirer) with Dr. Gelb?
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #26 - Jan 23rd, 2003 at 7:26pm
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That sounds like a ringing endorsement Sue.  Can you direct me to the grape koolaid?
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #27 - Jan 24th, 2003 at 12:08pm
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Batman wrote on Jan 19th, 2003 at 7:57pm:
Gotta add my pennies to this one.  Every time I hear Mr. Gelb touted as the foremost expert on polygraph I cringe.  Here is a guy who got on national TV with The former LA prosecutor, Ms Clark, and polygraphed Capt. Lou Albano to determine if professional wrestling was real.  Personally I think he is an embarrassment to polygraph at any level, regardless of his highly touted credentials and background.

By the way, he did get the call right on the wrestling issue, it's fake, but he couldn't get the Capt. to confess!

Batman  



While we're on the subject Batman, are there any other fellow polygraphers (past Presidents of your leading trade organization or otherwise) whom you'd care to excoriate? Why not just list them all now, rather than waiting for damaging information to be discovered about them and published *prior* to your condemnation?
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #28 - Jan 24th, 2003 at 12:10pm
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FWIW,

The 'real' LaSalle University (based in Philadelphia) has no record whatsoever of an Edward Gelb attending, much less graduating from, either their Masters or PhD programs.
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #29 - Jan 24th, 2003 at 2:08pm
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beech trees wrote on Jan 24th, 2003 at 12:10pm:
FWIW,

The 'real' LaSalle University (based in Philadelphia) has no record whatsoever of an Edward Gelb attending, much less graduating from, either their Masters or PhD programs.


A full search of WorldCat (a comprehensive catalog of 50 million documents at over 23,000 libraries in 60 countries) has only one record of a publication by Edward Gelb: a 93-page book on interrogation published in 1997.  No dissertation was found.

More importantly, there is no record of a dissertation on file for anything resembling an Edward Gelb in the Dissertation Abstracts database, which is considered the definitive worldwide collection of doctoral dissertations (it includes some masters', as well), with over 1.6 million records dating back to 1861.

Skeptic
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