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what are my rights with a private poly?
Jan 8th, 2003 at 11:58pm
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I have been accused of doing something I didn't do.  My wife wants me to take a poly.  I say fine, cause I know that I didn't do anything wrong.  I am nervous about taking the poly though, and i don't want that to affect the outcome.   

I live in VA and my wife was told that she can only ask 3 questions(for 400 dollars i might add).  These questions will be of the sexual nature, and the poly will take 90 minutes.   

Is there anything I should know before I take this?
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #1 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:10am
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Let me add that I am being accused of something i did with someon over the age of 18.   

I have been reading the post since my first and don't want to seem like this is a minor sex offense.

This supposedly happened at work between me and someone else.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:12am
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You need to understand that the "test" is a pseudoscientific fraud that has an inherent bias against the truthful. Download AntiPolygraph.org's free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and proceed directly to Chapters 3 and 4 for details.
  

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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:13am
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Does anyone know the law for virginia for private polygraphs?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:20am
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I don't know what Virginia law says regarding the conduct of private polygraph examinations, but you can be confident that the polygrapher will shove a liability waiver under your nose, asking you to hold him/her harmless for any and all damages arising from the polygraph examination. It is not in your interest to sign any such waiver. If the polygrapher has any confidence in his/her abilities, then he/she should not mind waiving the waiver.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:25am
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I understand what you are saying about not signing a waiver, but wouldn't this "upset" the polygrapher and therefore harm my chances at the truth?  Wouldn't this also make me look guilty?  Under the impression of "if i have nothing to hide, why won't I sign it?"

I am so confused and now this poly nightmare could damn well cost me my marriage to my wife.
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #6 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:26am
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Yes, not signing the waiver might upset the polygrapher. In fact, he/she might not be willing to proceed with the "test." But there is no good reason for you to waive your right to sue him.

For Virginia law on the administration of private polygraph examinations, see the following page on the Virginia Polygraph Association website:

http://www.vapolygraph.com/CodeVA.html

One option you might consider is telling your wife about this website, and showing her a printout of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. After she learns how the "test" actually works (and doesn't) and how easy it is to beat, she should drop the idea.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #7 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 12:59am
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Dear Damned-Already.......first of all, you should know that the people from who you seek advice are people who have had less than favorable outcomes with a polygraph test that they took.  They are not polygraph examiners.  In fact, they often are engage in verbal fisticuffs with at least one disgruntled former polygraph examiner who sponsors a competing site (please note anti-polygraph is non-profit and the other is "for profit").  They make it sound to those who write in (such as yourself) that they are  "experts" in the fiedl.  They are not, and you should be cautioned.  In fact, watch and they will attack me on this post, demanding my proof that the polyygraph works.  That is not what you are seeking.  True, they have done a fair amount of literature type research (no clinical research mind you) and they posses a broad spectrum of polygraph literature (some of it very dated).  They have published a rather lengthy treatise (available as a download on this site) which among other things provides instruction on how to perform countermeasures.  Why an innocent person would want to do anything to affect the outcome of ANY test still escapes me...but that is their position.  Oddly enough, I wouldtend to agree with at least part of Mr. Mascke's statement, but for a very different reason.  Yes, I am a polygraph examiner, and in situations in which what it sounds like you are describing, I would not recommend a polygraph.  Not that it doesn't work, but issues such as this are best resolved through counselling.  It sounds as if your wife does not trust you and believes whoever or however she came to be in possession of information that you were unfaithful to her. I assume I am correct on the scenario, but if not please advise.  As with any diagnostic test, there is always the possibility of a false positive result.  Most polygraph examiners do everything in their power to avoid this, and certainly to reduce the possibility, but it would just not be possible to say that it CANNOT occur. You sound skeptical about taking a polygraph and certainly less than pleased that your wife is making this demand of you.  Things like that MAY very well impact on the outcome of a polygraph.  There are a number of variables to conside, but my personal belief is that you and your wife need to resolve this matter through counseling.  If the outcome is not what you expect (for whatever reason), you will not be pleased.  If it is not what your wife expects, she willnot be pleased and you will be right back where you started.  Trust is something that should be inherent in a marriage.  At the risk of sounding like Dear Abby, work on that trust and do not depend on disgruntled people to advise you.
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #8 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 1:26am
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Probably the most pertinent statute in Virginia is:

§ 8.01-418.2. Evidence of polygraph examination inadmissible in any proceeding. 

The analysis of any polygraph test charts produced during any polygraph examination administered to a party or witness shall not be admissible in any proceeding conducted pursuant to Chapter 10 (§ 2.2-1000 et seq.) of Title 2.2 or conducted by any county, city or town over the objection of any party except as to disciplinary or other actions taken against a polygrapher. 

(1993, c. 570; 1995, cc. 770, 818.) 

The entire Code of Virginia is here. You may search the entire Code for 'Polygraph' here, which will elicit some interesting statutes and no doubt will be of great value in helping you decide how to proceed.

Your polygrapher will hopefully be a member of the Virginia Polygraph Association. Their bylaws are listed here.

Needless to say, this contributor urges you to save your $400.00 or take it to a gypsy for a crystal ball session-- they're as acccurate and could probably use the money more.

I would also urge you to download, read, and understand The Lie Behind The Lie Detector. Understanding how your polygraph interrogator will lie to you *before* you sit down with him will better arm you for his specious tactics and hypocritical, misleading mumbo-jumbo. 

Dave
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #9 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 2:34am
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Dear Damned_Already; am I correct in assuming that this is a fidelity issue between you and your wife?  If so, then my original advice stands and I would ask you to note, as I have told you, those who are frequent denizens of this site have qued up to give you advice regarding the admissibility of polygraph EVIDENCE. Although I cannot say for sure, I am reasonably sure that none of them are attorneys, with the possible exception of Mark Mallah.  If I am correct on my presumption, you and your wife have an issue that you wish to resolve and a polygraph is being considered as the means to that resolution.  If I am incorrect and this is a criminal issue and you wish to take a polygraph to assert your non-involvement, do it through your attorney.  He should be able to identify and engage the services of a polygraph examiner for you in your geographical region.  Advise him to call one of the national polygraph organizations for a referral to an examiner in your area.  I would encourage you to employ the services of a fully licensed and appropriately trained examiner.  Unfortunately, not all states require licensing and at this point I do not know where you are located.  I am not sure if Mr. Maschke has provided a link to any of them, but you are certainly invited to contact the American Polygraph Association at 800-272-8037. They will gladly provide you with the name and contact information of a member examiner in your area.  I hope this has been some help to you.
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #10 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 3:15am
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damned already,

While the particularly energetic 'torpedo' is practically counting his finders fee, please note that this is a not-for-profit website, and it nor I have anything to gain in any way by disseminating the truth about the lie behind the lie detector. Ask yourself this: If the vast majority of courts dismiss as piffle the results of polygraph tests, would you want such a polygraph to be the final arbiter of your fidelity and love for your wife? Do you want to take the advice of well-meaning, well-researched political activists, PhD's, law enforcement, military and legal contributors here, or the advice of someone who lies for a living?
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #11 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 4:11am
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Damned_already, I apologize.  You are seeking advice and I am certain you had no intention of ending up on the observing end of Beech Trees "ad-homimen" arguments (that's one of the terms they like to banter about).  As you can see, they (or at least Beech Trees) is trying to lay out information in legalese.  The closest he came was when he acknowledged that his "crew" are "well-meaning"...not sure what he meant by "well researched" because few (and I meam 1 or 2) of them are actually researchers (there are opponents of polygraph to be sure, but at least they have sense enough not to sully their names and reputations on this site) who have engaged in scientifically based research.  That acknowledgement should help you make a decision.  Remember what I said that apparently Beech Trees did not see, I recommended counseling over a polygraph in a fidelity issue.  Again best of luck.  I will register under "Torpedo" in the event you wish to send me a private message and offer you what assistance I may.
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #12 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 4:18am
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Beech Trees, I cannot believe you are making the recommendations that you are.  "Well meaning and well researched". Just who are you kidding. Tell me the "research" that you and your cronies are or have been involved. I mean the ones who post here as you told DA.  You obviously did not read my post and snapped off some response to this guy who was seeking advice to further your own cause. Stay back and observe BT, you are out of your league!
  
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 4:50am
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damned_already,

Above is the haughty, arrogant and condescending attitude you can expect from your polygraph interrogator should you actually dare to challenge his authority with honest, pointed questions concerning the validity of the polygraph prior to your interrogation.
  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: what are my rights with a private poly?
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2003 at 8:41am
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Torpedo,

I think your following advice to "Damned Already" is well-reasoned:

Quote:
Yes, I am a polygraph examiner, and in situations in which what it sounds like you are describing, I would not recommend a polygraph.  Not that it doesn't work, but issues such as this are best resolved through counselling.  It sounds as if your wife does not trust you and believes whoever or however she came to be in possession of information that you were unfaithful to her. I assume I am correct on the scenario, but if not please advise.  As with any diagnostic test, there is always the possibility of a false positive result.  Most polygraph examiners do everything in their power to avoid this, and certainly to reduce the possibility, but it would just not be possible to say that it CANNOT occur. You sound skeptical about taking a polygraph and certainly less than pleased that your wife is making this demand of you.  Things like that MAY very well impact on the outcome of a polygraph.  There are a number of variables to conside, but my personal belief is that you and your wife need to resolve this matter through counseling.  If the outcome is not what you expect (for whatever reason), you will not be pleased.  If it is not what your wife expects, she willnot be pleased and you will be right back where you started.  Trust is something that should be inherent in a marriage.


As for your criticisms of AntiPolygraph.org, perhaps it would be more helpful to "Damned Already" (and others who may read this message thread) if you were to specifically point out anything in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector that you believe to be untrue, rather than questioning our credentials and/or motives.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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