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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection (Read 45283 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Skeptic
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #15 - Nov 18th, 2002 at 6:09pm
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I am floored. You Mr. Maschke, have finally shown your true colors for what they really are; and not RWB.  If you are responsible for the "hasty" translation of the terrorists information, then you are a party to treason.  We are at war and you have the gall to provide comfort and support to the enemy who may very well be in our country in various sleeper cells and seeking the very type of information that you give them in a "hasty" translation.  What could your motivation possibly be for that? Even if anything that you or any of your followers say in your postings has ANY value, I ask you how this translation could help anyone in our country. As our military poise to strike at the heart of those who would destroy our country, when this is over, I  hope to God that you are brought to be held accountable for this that can only be viewed as treason. I spit on you!


An "American",
In your haste to tar George with the label "traitor", you apparently haven't noticed a couple of things.

First, as Beech Trees noted, any al Qaeda sympathizer would most likely read arabic and prefer/have easy access to the original arabic.  The Encyclopedia of Jihad is available (and has been for about 9 months) online for easy download in its entirety.

Second, of what possible assistance could this information be to terrorists?  If they read and prefer english, more information regarding the polygraph can be found at the local library.

Third, if you're looking for anti-American activities and traitors (even unintended), you might start with the polygraph and its proponents.  The use of the polygraph in screening continues to be a major hole in our security apparatus through which terrorists could easily slip and cause major damage.  This is known fact, which means those who continue to use the polygraph are knowingly aiding and comforting the enemy.

I don't buy it, "American".

Skeptic
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #16 - Nov 18th, 2002 at 6:27pm
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It's impossible to know, but for now I'll give the non-registered, anonymous posters to this site the benefit of the doubt and assume they are different people with genuine concerns.

I'd ask that everybody take a step back and consider what they're saying.

"Retired Vet" and "An American", if you truly care about this country, you must realize that al Qaeda already trains its people regarding the polygraph.  How it works is an open secret, and apparently only the American People are largely in the dark.

It is evident that al Qaeda and our other enemies already have the keys to the kingdom, and this translation should have all red-blooded patriotic Americans calling for a changing of the locks.  Yet you guys are here calling those who warn about the security flaw traitors.  How smart is that?

Would you be running around calling people who warn of security flaws at airports "traitors", too?

If that's acknowledgement of the "real world", we're in serious trouble.  More likely, it's simply having your head in the sand.

Wake up, people.  The polygraph's cover is blown, and was long before this translation popped up.  I, for one, am damn glad we know about it.

Skeptic
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mark Mallah
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #17 - Nov 18th, 2002 at 8:22pm
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Why not go to Washington DC and stand by the Vietnam War Memorial and spout your “shame shame shame” mantra to the Vets, families, and friends of those who paid the supreme sacrifice for you, George, Mark, and all the other whiners on this site?    


Retired Vet:

I missed the connection between military service and polygraphy.  I also missed the connection between polygraphy and patriotism.

Do you think that because someone served in the military, and may have done so honorably and to the great benefit of this nation, that somehow their post-military actions carry the aura of their military service, and are not to be questioned?

Your claim of many years of real world experience is hollow.  There are many in law enforcement, particularly in polygraphy, who spout this nonsense.  Of course it's universal--many elders say they are right because they have lived longer and experienced more.  But many have one year of experience twenty times, and living through and witnessing events does not mean that one has learned anything from them.  

Your trying to portray us as unpatriotic whiners is pathetic, and shows your unwillingness or inability to deal with the very serious problems with the polygraph.

You think your polygraph serves American interests just because you and your fellow practitioners say so?

As long as we're talking about accountability, perhaps you can account for the national disasters of Aldrich Ames, Larry Wu Tai Chin, Ana Belen Montes, Karl Koecher, and the CIA's Cuban sources in the 1980's (long before this web site) who "passed"  polygraphs, but were traitors and double agents, respectively.

And since you are federal law enforcement (FBI is my guess) perhaps you'd like to account for the waste of time, money, and resources the FBI spent on a wild goose chase of me, because of reliance on the polygraph, while Robert Hanssen and Earl Pitts were committing espionage.  Hostile intelligence services must have been laughing their heads off.

Please don't tell us that you can account for these polygraph induced disasters by saying that the person who brought them up is a whiner.
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2002 at 9:25pm by Mark Mallah »  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #18 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 3:52am
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Skeptic wrote on Nov 18th, 2002 at 6:27pm:
Would you be running around calling people who warn of security flaws at airports "traitors", too?

If that's acknowledgement of the "real world", we're in serious trouble.  More likely, it's simply having your head in the sand.

Wake up, people.  The polygraph's cover is blown, and was long before this translation popped up.  I, for one, am damn glad we know about it.

Skeptic


And apparently support George M. in his crusade to make his booklet available in Arabic and other languages to potential terrorists who have access to the internet.
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #19 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 4:58am
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And apparently support George M. in his crusade to make his booklet available in Arabic and other languages to potential terrorists who have access to the internet.


I fully support any and all efforts to eradicate the use of the polygraph in security screening, as it amounts to nothing more than a gaping security hole.

Make no mistake: I hold the security and safety of this nation as my highest priority.  And I would absolutely never do anything that I felt would endanger Americans or national security.

What you have to realize is the information in TLBTLD is easily available from a multitude of  sources.  If you truly imagine al Qaeda and others don't have easy access to that information already, you are part of the problem.  You are also blind: the translation of al Qaeda's information on the polygraph makes it abundantly clear the cat is out of the bag.

Ask yourself this question, if you would: why is it that the polygraph, throughout its long and illustrious history, has never caught a spy, and has specifically missed the most damaging spies our nation has seen?  The polygraph was in use long before George's book came along.

If security personnel would wake up to this problem tomorrow and eradicate the use of the polygraph, translation of TLBTLD would be a non-issue.  As it is, if that's what it takes to make people realize the polygraph, a lynchpin in our nation's security apparatus, is already compromised and worse than useless...

Skeptic
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2002 at 5:21am by Skeptic »  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #20 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 5:53am
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"Betrayed,"

Your suggestion that I am somehow on a "crusade" to aid potential terrorists through the translation of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is simply outrageous.

For any who are interested, my post to which "Betrayed" refers with such professed aggrievement is to be found in the message thread, Translation.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #21 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 2:28pm
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Changing the description from a "hasty" translation to a "rough" translation does not in any legal sense protect you from the act you have done.  Again,I am only assuming you provided it. Mr. Mallah, please advise your client. Do you now choose to answer the original question? Did you George Maschke provide on this web site the "hasty" translation; and now it must be added - did you George Maschke provide the "rough" translation which is the topic of this thread.
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #22 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 3:43pm
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Changing the description from a "hasty" translation to a "rough" translation does not in any legal sense protect you from the act you have done.  Again,I am only assuming you provided it. Mr. Mallah, please advise your client. Do you now choose to answer the original question? Did you George Maschke provide on this web site the "hasty" translation; and now it must be added - did you George Maschke provide the "rough" translation which is the topic of this thread.


Rather than getting all worked up with your latest 'rough vs. hasty' conspiracy theory, could we please reverse engineer this? What laws do you think George has broken please? Specifically?
  

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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #23 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 5:17pm
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Cute BT.  Now you are in to altering posters names. I wonder if other posters know how things on this site can be manipulated?  George, BT is more of a problem to you than you might think.  I assure you and any other readers, my posted name is NOT "AnAmerican dufus". How incredibly childish!
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #24 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 5:26pm
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An_American wrote on Nov 19th, 2002 at 2:28pm:
Changing the description from a "hasty" translation to a "rough" translation does not in any legal sense protect you from the act you have done.  Again,I am only assuming you provided it. Mr. Mallah, please advise your client. Do you now choose to answer the original question? Did you George Maschke provide on this web site the "hasty" translation; and now it must be added - did you George Maschke provide the "rough" translation which is the topic of this thread.


Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to the legal difficulties involved in "the act [he has] done"?  You'll want to cite the specific code and statute, of course.

Additionally, I'd love to see your qualifications in this area.  Would you care to present them?

Skeptic
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #25 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 6:13pm
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Beech Trees, Skeptic,

"An American" has specifically accused Mr. Maschke of the capital crime of treason. See "An American's" first post here, where he wrote, "I  hope to God that you are brought to be held accountable for this that can only be viewed as treason."

The applicable law is 18 USC 2381. It provides:

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five
years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #26 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 6:18pm
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Cute BT.  Now you are in to altering posters names. I wonder if other posters know how things on this site can be manipulated?  George, BT is more of a problem to you than you might think.  I assure you and any other readers, my posted name is NOT "AnAmerican dufus". How incredibly childish!


I grant you it was childish. I didn't alter YOUR name, I altered the quote citation when I replied. No malfeasance, just a result of my frustration at your amazing, breathtakingly wrong histrionics. Now please put up or knock off the borderline libelous accusations.
  

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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #27 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 6:22pm
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Anonymous,

If that in fact is An_American's assertion, he should be identified and sued into oblivion.
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #28 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 6:33pm
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Anonymous2,

Perhaps "An American" would be so kind as to clarify precisely what crime he believes has been committed. But his second post here also indicates that the crime he had in mind is treason. He wrote:

Quote:
...What possible value could this have other than to provide those who speak that language who CHOOSE to read the "hasty" translation provided by a traitor, or to those in your midst who support you and who also must assume responsibility for any benefit this "hasty" translation provides to the enemies of this country....
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Documentation on Lie Detection
Reply #29 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 7:37pm
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Beech Trees, Skeptic,

"An American" has specifically accused Mr. Maschke of the capital crime of treason. See "An American's" first post here, where he wrote, "I  hope to God that you are brought to be held accountable for this that can only be viewed as treason."

The applicable law is 18 USC 2381. It provides:

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five
years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."


You know, I'm not a lawyer, but I would love to hear the defense's argument.  I imagine it would go something like this:

"Your honor, my client is a patriotic American and an activist dedicated to exposing and fixing a documented critical flaw in our nation's security.  Unfortunately, this runs afoul of the economic interests of a number of people.  In an attempt to silence my client, the polygraph profession has tried many tactics, and is now resorting to the outrage of calling him a traitor.

"The prosecution would have you believe that Mr. Maschke is intentionally assisting our enemies with circumventing security procedures.  For this to be true, it would first be necessary that the polygraph could accurately be described as a "security procedure".  As recent findings by the National Academy of Sciences indicate, the polygraph is worse than useless for security screening; it is a detriment to security, one that has never caught a spy, one that has allowed our nation's worst espionage disasters to go on undetected.

"As for these charges, the prosecution's case boils down to claiming the translating of public-domain information from arabic to english constitutes treason.  We submit that this is prima facie absurd, and ask that these charges be dismissed with prejudice.  Further, in light of the fact that the prosecution is aware of the frivolous nature of the charges it has brought, we ask for recovery of all attorney's and legal fees."

I would pay to see the public flogging the prosecution would get on that one, not to mention the resulting damage to the polygraph profession.

Tell you what: I think it’s a lot more likely “An American” will be successfully sued for libel, should he continue with this crap.

Skeptic
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2002 at 8:01pm by Skeptic »  
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