steincj wrote on Dec 8^th, 2002 at 3:40am:


Chris,
I read your account with interest.  I found your explanation of why you were accused of being a spy to be plausible.  Another might be that, after making what you considered at the time a humiliating mistake on your security forms regarding foreign contacts, questions about that subject caused genuine nervous reactions.  Or some combination of the two.

Either because of the number of applicants or the process, we do seem to get a lot of good people who ran into trouble on the FBI polygraph.  I'm so glad that, as an American citizen, this device is being used to keep well-qualified people from serving in critical positions.

Skeptic

Chris,

I also, like Skeptic, read your story with great interest.  And I agree with him, the fact that the foreign contact question was discussed before the poly, that you thought you made a mistake on it, and felt bad about that supposed mistake, would certainly pre-condition you to react more strongly to that question.

But even were that not the case, the polygraph may still have falsely accused you, as it is prone to doing.

After reading your story I am just disgusted at the idiocy.  The FBI has this lame-brained obsession with "foreign contacts", as if all foreign contacts are created equal, as if  foreign contacts in the Balkans during our intervention there(as you had) are the same as foreign contacts in Saddam's inner circle.  Yes we must ensure that applicants are not agents of foreign governments, but use a little common sense.

Clearly the candidates with the best chances are those who have never travelled outside the U.S., and know no foreigners, so that these "foreign contact" questions never come up.  But that is not the best pool; it should also include people with the kind of foreign experience you had, especially now with terrorism a priority.  Your experience suggests that the FBI is not serious, but absorbed in its own parochialism.

Anyway, I am sorry to hear of your experience.  Best of luck with your career ambitions.

Quote:



Fair Chance, Mark, Skeptic, George, et at.,

This quote says it all.  We know how we feel about the polygraph and its usage.  Our goal on this site is to inform others about how a piece of machinery can destroy a person's life.

It is not about the job.  It is not about the money.  It is about the person who had their dignity stripped from them and negative label applied on the basis of "junk science."

I have to question SecondChnacePoly once again.  He doesn't care about clearing his name.  He cares more about his 70 hour work week and all the money his new job brings in more than a chance to clear his name.  His anger toward the FBI will dissipate, because he is focused on himself.  But I think we all agree that we should be the last to suffer like this -- that's why this site is here.  No one should have to go through what we went through.

Again I ask, how many more innocent, dedicated Americans have to suffer?  As far as the FBI cares, enough so that they have the perfect applicant.  

An agency based on bureaucracy that only accepts choir boys as agents is doomed to remain bureaucratic.  It's when you get a little dirt under your nails that you realize that bureaucracy isn't effective to completing the mission.  I got through my years of Army Intelligence fighting bureaucracy to get results, and I was extremely successful.  I guess the FBI isn't interested in success . . 

Chris

Skeptic,

My only point in addressing you in my post was to thank you for empathizing with my position.  I think that thank you was lost in my disdain for SecondChancePoly, though . . .

As far as the "choir boys" and "dirty fingernails,"  I think we all can agree that using a polygraph as a pre-employment screening tool is probably not providing the most accurate returns in applicant suitablility as the employer beleives it is.

But with a steady stram of applicants to fill the places of those deemed "deceptive,"  employers will never know what they are missing.

Chris

Skeptic wrote on Dec 13^th, 2002 at 10:44pm:


Skeptic,
No need to worry.  You didn't seem to boast at all.  You were proving a point with mere fact.  We all talk about our backgrounds and how we are very qualified for the jobs we applied for.  That's what makes this site special - so many qualified people, all derailed by the same madness.  

Quote:


As the FBI goes, I have to disagree.  If they wanted less applicants to do background checks on, they could just skip the polygraph and raise the Phase II (interview) cutoff score.  This way, less people would pass Phase II and move on.

I think someone, somewhere, within the Bureau, truly believes that the pre-employment polygraph is a good thing.  Yet the Bureau doesn't do pre-employment psych tests.  I guess we know why there's someone in the Bureau who thinks the pre-employment polygraph is a good thing . . .

Chris

Well, I like to check-up on this site every week or so during lunch to see how the effort is going, and with the recent NAS proclamation, I’d say that everything is moving in a positive direction.

Chris,

I had a chance to read your personal ordeal, and I feel terrible about what happened to you.  I also held a TS before and after my FBI experience.  What I think you’re feeling right now is the same way we all felt for the first four months after our polygraph ordeal.  You’re wondering how this could happen, where did this left-hook-to-the-jaw come from, and what can I do about it?  Well, this site is an excellent place to help facilitate a healing process.  And I believe that in two or three months from now, you will better understand where you can and cannot make a difference in this noble effort.

In response to your distain for me, you have to understand that it’s not the hectic hours that I work, or the private sector money that keeps me from fighting this insanity.  I do whatever I can, whenever I can, but I cannot let the ridiculousness of polygraph distract me from making a living and being successful in my life.  You should know, like other contributors to this site, that fighting City Hall is a long and arduous process.  If you rush in with a hothead instead of calculating your moves, you are immediately discrediting yourself and the end result of that chosen path is hatred and bitterness.  I think you just need some more time to cool off a bit (like we all had to) and then you’ll be able to focus your energy more efficiently into this campaign. 

As far as getting back in the chair:  One, taking a personal day while still being new to a firm is frowned upon.  Two, I have read some posts of individuals who have taken the second FBI poly and said it was one of two things. #1: A Countermeasure Detection Laboratory (with you as the guinea pig)  #2: Just a quick-failure routine so that you will shut your mouth and leave the FBI alone.

I think one of Mark’s old acquaintances said it best, “Telling the FBI they’re wrong is like telling a mother she has an ugly baby.”

Good Luck!