Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) They Said I Made Admissions also.. (Read 28727 times)
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They Said I Made Admissions also..
Sep 20th, 2002 at 7:19am
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I took a pre-employment polygraph for a law enforcement position in California. The examiner claimed that I had trouble with a question regarding "criminal sexual behavior."

He/she insisted that I confess and that if it was not too serious he/she could advocate for me. I refused to make any admissions because I have never engaged in any illegal sexual act.

I  informed the examiner that I have severe hypertension, and suggested that this condition might have caused a false positive reading.  In addition, I told the examiner that a close relative of mine was molested as a child and that perhaps this was the result of my reaction.

The examiner abruptly cut me off and indicated that he/she was 100 percent certain that I was being deceptive. After several minutes of badgering by the examiner, I ended the post test interrogation and went home. 

About two weeks after the exam, I got a call from my employer notifying me that I was being placed on paid administrative leave. I work with abused children and the polygraph examiner filed a report with local law enforcement and county and state licensing agencies.

In the report, the examiner claimed that I had made an admission about: "being sexually stimulated when a child gives me a hug" and the examiner wrote that I verbalized being "fearful that a local licensing agency would be notified." 
I did not make these statements.

As a result of the examiner's lies, I have now been on paid administrative leave for a month (losing hundred in overtime pay). In addition, the local police sent two detectives to my home to question me. Also, state and local social service agencies are conducting investigations which include interviewing current and former clients and coworkers.

These investigations are being conducted solely based on the examiner's report. There are no clients making any allegations and in over 12 years on the job, I have never been investigated for sexual misconduct. 

 I strongly want this examiner to be held accountable for filing a false report. What are my options?

P.S..... the examiner accused me of using countermeasures during the exam and screamed at me twice while I was connected to the device. Both times the examier shouted, "Watch you breathing, or I'll stop the test!" Could this have been an attempt by the examiner to manipulate the results?
« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2002 at 10:46am by A True Libertarian »  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mark Mallah
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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #1 - Sep 21st, 2002 at 1:53am
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You should read the Lie Behind the Lie Detector and follow its advice regarding contacting relevant agencies.

Beyond that, your case is particularly egregious and outrageous.  I strongly recommend consulting an attorney (specializing in employment law).  Based on what you wrote, you have a strong case.  If you want accountability, you are going to have to drive it yourself.  Don't wait for or depend on the agencies involved.
  
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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #2 - Sep 23rd, 2002 at 8:32am
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Thanks for your response! I am currently looking into my legal options and will take all appropriate steps to hold those responsible accountable! This includes, but is not limited to filing civil lawsuits against the examiner and the county that employed such an uneducated, dogmatic, individual!  
« Last Edit: Sep 24th, 2002 at 10:41am by A True Libertarian »  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #3 - Sep 23rd, 2002 at 9:09am
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True Libertarian,

I agree with Mark: if you want accountability, you'll have to be the driving force behind it yourself. I think it would be prudent to promptly consult with one or more lawyers about your legal options. Beyond this, some other ideas come to mind:

Make sure that your employer learns the truth about polygraphs. You might print out for your supervisor(s) copies of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector as well as Prof. William G. Iacono's recent article, "Forensic 'Lie Detection': Procedures Without Scientific Basis and Dr. Drew C. Richardson's 1997 Senate testimony that polygraph screening "is completely without any theoretical foundation and has absolutely no validity."

Are you a member of a union (or other protective association)? If so, contact your representative(s) about what has happened to you.

Demand that the agency involved release all information regarding your application for employment (including your polygraph interrogation) in accordance with the California Public Records Act.

Consider going public. Your polygrapher's slander has probably already caused clients and co-workers (and perhaps friends and relatives) to wonder whether you are some kind of criminal. You might wish to publicly set the record straight by calling the newsroom of your local newspaper(s) and television and radio news stations about your experience (and naming names).

By screaming at you during the "test" and instructing you to "watch your breathing," your polygrapher was definitely attempting to manipulate the charts (by altering your respiratory tracings). What is less clear is why your polygrapher would do this.

  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2002 at 4:37pm
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A True Libertarian,

I completely agree with Mark Mallah's assessment.  Your experience, as you have described it (I take it at face value unless given reason to do otherwise), can be categorized as nothing less than egregious and outrageous. An outline of the contained absurdities would include the following:

1.  There is no reason to expect any validity whatsoever in a screening exam focusing on issues dealing with criminal sexual behavior.  Because your hypertension and relative's experience are completely irrelevant to the  lack of general validity with this sort of testing there should be absolutely no burden of responsibility placed on you to explain why an invalid test produces inaccurate results.

2.  No polygraph examiner in the absence of a corroborated confession or other irrefutable evidence is 100 per cent sure of anything.  One who simply has the results of a polygraph-screening exam is most assuredly not sure of anything.

3.  Anyone who believes a polygraph examiner will likely be an advocate for an examinee that makes admissions (whether true or false) needs to have his head examined.  Although I am sorry to hear that you had to endure such nonsense, I am equally glad to hear that you ended the charade soon after becoming convinced of the folly foisted upon you.

4.  I am (and so should every American be) highly incensed by the continuing litany of claimed false admissions/confessions alleged to have been attributed to examinees by polygraph examiners.  This is a claim that has come to my attention several times through this site and elsewhere.  PDD-Fed, Polycop, Public Servant, et al, is there any doubt with this sort of recurring examinee testimony that EVERY single polygraph examination conducted in this country should be audio and videotaped?

5.  No examiner has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect countermeasures.  Beyond that, and of a more fundamental concern, is that few, if any, practicing polygraphers have any real knowledge of respiratory physiology.  Without an understanding of the many and complex factors affecting respiration rate and volume (central, peripheral, and chemical factors, et al), various physiological and pathological conditions leading to apneustic breathing, etc, and how all these various factors may play out during a polygraph exam, no polygraph examiner has any business commenting to an examinee about respiration.  The notion of being told to "watch your breathing" is particularly absurd.  Essentially you are being told to control your breathing (presumably the last thing a countermeasure-frightened polygraph community would want) only in a manner pleasing to the polygraph examiner and producing tracings that he is comfortable with.


I hope that you will keep us informed as you seek to fight the travesty that you’ve described.  Best Wishes,

Drew Richardson
« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2002 at 5:35pm by Drew Richardson »  
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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #5 - Sep 24th, 2002 at 9:19pm
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Mark, George, and Dr Richardson:

Thank you for all the advice and feedback. I truly appreciate it.

I received notice on 9/23/02 that both state and county agencies have concluded their investigations. They concluded that the allegations were unfounded. I met with my employer and will return to work on Wednesday 9/25/02.

Once again thank you. I intend to follow all recommendations and will keep you all informed of the end results.

A True Libertarian

  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2002 at 2:59am
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Quote:
I received notice on 9/23/02 that both state and county agencies have concluded their investigations. They concluded that the allegations were unfounded. I met with my employer and will return to work on Wednesday 9/25/02.


Sir,

I hope you will ask your employer what sanctions they will bring against your accuser for lying to them about you. Barring that, I hope you will explore civil litigation against your polygraph interrogator and his employer.
  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2002 at 6:38am
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Thank you for the feedback!

I am exploring civil litigation. I have an attorney very interested in the case. The case would include two counties and employees from both, including the examiner. In addition, I have requested assistance from the ACLU. 

I will keep you posted.

  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2002 at 11:26am
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Roll Eyes Civil litigation looking good!

I hope that my case sends a message to the pro-polygraph community!

Mark my words... any polygraph examiner who thinks that they can lie, or file false reports that indicate that admissions were made will be held accountable; lol!

I am tempted to to name the county involved, but I have been advised not to by my attorney. 

Correct me if I am wrong, to the best of my knowledge, any peace officer who files a false report may be charge with a felony! 

  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2002 at 9:38pm
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True Libertarian,

I hope your case sends a message not only to the polygraph community, but to the community at large. When you're ready to file a claim (assuming the county involved declines an initial out-of-court settlement), we'd be happy to post the full text of your complaint and any supporting documentation here on AntiPolygraph.org. For examples of filings from other polygraph-related cases, see the Polygraph Litigation page.

I'm not sure what the California Penal Code says regarding peace officers who willfully file false reports, but it seems that disciplinary action of some kind is warranted against your polygrapher (and perhaps others in his/her agency).
  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #10 - Oct 3rd, 2002 at 12:50pm
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George,

Thanks for your reply. I hope that my case has an impact on the community at large as well.

I, have contacted several agencies regarding my experience, in an attempt to seek accountability, against my polygraph examiner and his/her employer.

I have even sent an email to Skip Webb of the "American Polygraph Association." Mr. Webb responded to my complaint as follows:

"First you should determine if the interview was recorded. If so request the agency review the taped interview for the reported admissions. Second, I would need to know if the examiner is a member of the APA. If so you could file a grievance, but you would need evidence that the reported admissions made by you did not occur as alleged in the polygraph report."

I, appreciate Mr. Webb for taking the time to respond to my email; however, doesn't his response clearly express that the APA places the burden of proof on the examinee. Basically, Mr Webb is informing me that if my polygraph experience was not video taped that I cannot file a valid grievance.

This is an outrage and basically sends the message that a polygraph examiner has broad authority to: distort, manipulate, and even lie about the polygraph results in his/her written report. 







« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2002 at 6:31am by A True Libertarian »  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2002 at 2:52pm
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Quote:
I have even sent an email to Skip Webb of the "American Polygraph Association". Mr. Webb responded to my complaint as follows:

"First you should determine if the interview was recorded. If so request the agency review the taped interview for the reported admissions. Second, I would need to know if the examiner is a member of the APA. If so you could file a grievance, but you would need evidence that the reported admissions made by you did not occur as alleged in the polygraph report."


Oh darn, wouldn't it be a shame if justice could not be served, and the interview was not recorded? I'm sure Mr. Webb, upon hearing that unfortunate fact, will rush to introduce bylaws that *all* APA members must record via videotape all pre-interview, interview, and post-test interrogations and make available at reasonable costs copies to the test subject. Yeah, right.

I like how he insists you must prove a negative assertion, i.e., 'prove you didn't do it'.

Don't hold your breath Libertarian.... but good luck with your lawsuit. 

Molon labe,

Dave
  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2002 at 5:43pm
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True Libertarian,

Your last post included the following:

Quote:
...Mr. Webb responded to my complaint as follows:

"First you should determine if the interview was recorded. If so request the agency review the taped interview for the reported admissions. Second, I would need to know if the examiner is a member of the APA. If so you could file a grievance, but you would need evidence that the reported admissions made by you did not occur as alleged in the polygraph report."...


With regard to the (at this point) hypothetical scenario you raise involving your polygraph examination and interrogation NOT having been recorded, Mr. Webb will have to answer for himself as to how he would  view your then uncorroborated testimony and whether he believes this to be sufficient and compelling  reason for requiring all such future encounters to be recorded.  I personally and very strongly  believe that EVERY examination should be recorded and that this should be taken as seriously and viewed as much a protected right as the administration and recording of an advice of rights and accompanying form(s) in a criminal matter.   

I further believe, that if support for this position is not quickly forthcoming from general law enforcement, polygraph organizations such as the APA and teaching institutions such as DoDPI (which as far as I am aware and to their credit record all in-house examinations), the public should demand such through the following actions: (1) Consideration should be given in contemplated civil suits (such as the one you have alluded to in your case) to suing not only for wrongful determinations and actions stemming from inaccurate polygraph results and “made-up” confessions/admissions but for not providing the basic protection (from such abuse) afforded through routine audio/video recordings, and (2) grass-root signature petitions should be started all over the country getting referendums on the ballot mandating the use of, protection of, and reasonable availability (for protected parties) of such recordings.

I also believe that considerably more time, effort, and personnel resources should be expended by the polygraph community towards utilizing concealed information testing.  This effort will yield at least two major benefits over presently and widely used lie detection formats:  (1)  This type of examination has a scientific basis for practice, has components of meaningful scientific control, and potentially offers a valid procedure/results suitable for introduction in trial matters through expert testimony in Daubert or Frye hearings, and equally importantly, and in the context of this thread, (2) will provide for testing whose public dissemination  polygraph examiners would not need dread or fear as personally embarrassing should said dissemination become the norm through courtroom replay and any accompanying media coverage.  This latter relative benefit is made possible because concealed information testing does not require or involve any of the deceit and misrepresentation inherent (even in the absence of  contrived confessions/admissions) in many commonly utilized lie detection formats.

Regards,

Drew Richardson

  
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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #13 - Oct 4th, 2002 at 5:25am
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Of course use of concealed information tests is not possible in employment screening. OTOH, while CQT's in screening situations may not be easily validated, they have one major attribute. They can't very often be invalidated either. If an applicant is labeled DI with regard to drug usage, there is no way for her to prove she was not. So everyone is happy, except perhaps the applicant.

One of the more interesting rationalizations is the work by Martin and Terris (1991) that states that so long as the polygraph is, in reality, better than 50/50 at detecting deception, then it benefits the truthful applicant in situations where there are many more applicants than positions. Of course in making this hypothesis, they assume there is no consequence associated with not being hired per se.  Another point is that the thresholds for DI should be raised for screening of current employees since being removed from a job is more clearly detrimental.

Seems to me it was reported that the DOE employees all "passed" their polygraphs.  I guess they were all innocent AND false positived were fractions of a percent.

-Marty
  

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Re: They Said I Made Admissions also..
Reply #14 - Oct 4th, 2002 at 4:45pm
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Marty,

Although my mention of CIT exams was not the focus (the absolute necessity for audio/video recording of polygraph examinations was) of my last post or this thread, I believe you may have missed my point there.  I would never suggest CIT exams (or any other) be done for employee, applicant, or other screening.  This latter group of applications is nothing but a fishing expedition with no, and I repeat absolutely no, basis for practice.  These types of exams should be altogether discontinued, and, as has been made the central focus of this site since its inception, should be banned by law through a Comprehensive Polygraph Protection Act, completing that which was begun in earnest (but not yet finished) with the EPPA.  Relative to this thread and aside from potentially providing a valid diagnostic instrument to be used with specific issue testing, CIT exams would allow polygraphers to readily display to the world (through the aforementioned recordings)  universally-acknowledged professional behavior leading to a valuable product .  Quite apart from the issue of contrived admissions/confessions (which launched this thread), the conduct of commonly administered lie-detection exams, when publicly revealed, would likely always serve as a source of embarrassment for the polygraph community.   
  
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