Just failed my polygraph for employment with the local sheriff's office.  I tried the countermeasures but I guess I didn't do it right??  ??? I'm very dissapointed and pissed off.  I'm a good worker and would have liked to have made that my career .  The sad thing is that is was only for a dispatchers job and not an officer.  What a bunch of b.s.!  I did some bad things when I was younger but am a good person now, they made me feel like there was something wrong with me.  Poop on them!  Poop on polygraphs. 

whtvr25 wrote on Jun 8^th, 2002 at 6:47pm:


Here is a good place to start:

Florida Government in the Sunshine: A Citizen's Guide

From which I quote in part:

If you are refused access to public records you should cite Chapter 119 of Florida Law, which states: "It is the policy of this state that all state, county, and minicipal[sic] records shall at all times be open for a personal inspection by any person." Public resords are defined as "all documents, papers, letters, maps, books, tapes, photographs, films, sound recordings or other material, regardless of physical form or characteristics, made or received...in connection with the transaction of official business by any agency." Section 119.10 provides that: "Any person willfully and knowingly violating any of the provisions of this chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree..."

According to the website noted above, there are over 500 exemptions from the Florida FOI statutes, including:

Medical and birth records; 
Identity of parents who leave a newborn infant at a hospital or fire station; 
Information provided to authorities by people who take minor children when fleeing domestic violence; 
Investigative and criminal intelligence records of law enforcement agencies that are related to active investigations; 
Law enforcement records identifying sexual abuse victims or confidential informants; 
Home addresses and phone numbers of Department of Children & Family Services investigators, law enforcement officers, state attorneys, judges, firefighters, and code enforcement officers; 
Adoption records; 
Student educational records; 
Reports of diseases of "public health significance" to the state Department of Children & Family Services; 
Information "necessary to security and integrity" of the Florida Lottery; 
Negotiation records of purchases of real property by state and local agencies, such as appraisals, offers, and counteroffers, until a deal is final or will be considered by the governing body within 30 days, 
Most tax information filed with the Department of Revenue; 
Layout plans of port facilities, if it is believed that they can could compromise seaport security; and 
Collective bargaining records.

dave

Hello,

I have been to this site and have read TLBTLD quite a few times because I am currently in the process of trying to become a PO.  I have decided that I will use counter measures, not just because I have a shaky past, but because I have seen the horror stories that honesty has caused.  

However, after posts like whtvr25, I myself am concerned about producing a truthful chart.  According to the posts here and TLBTLD I was convinced that using counter measures and passing should be relatively easy.  

My question is, what are the common mistakes made when using counter measures?  I DON'T want to make them.  I want to  be DAMN sure when I get in that room I know what I am doing.  Any replies will be greatly appreciated.

Also, I have seen Doug Williams on TV and have visited his web site.  Does his book have any secrets that I have not learned from TLBTLD?  I don't want to spend 50 bucks if I don't have to, but I will if it means the difference between passing and failing.  

I am very appreciative for the work that you guys do.

Thanks

Jimmy I know exactly how you feel.  I am in the exact same position.  Would someone please post a shortened version of their polygraph interrogation including when they used countermeasures and when they didnt?  I know there are examples in TLBTLD but I'd appreciate a first hand account.

Canuck asked, "Would someone please post a shortened version of their polygraph interrogation including when they used countermeasures and when they didn't?"

Canuck, I took a preemployment LE poly two months ago. (Evidentially, I passed.  I'm being sworn in two weeks.)   I'll share the procedure and questions I experienced. As for countermeasures I will let one of the more senior users of this site make suggestions.  I did not find this site until after the test and was unaware of countermeasures at the time of my test.

A week before the test I was provided with a very lengthy pre-poly questionnaire.  (Probably over 200 questions.)  It covered everything from health questions, to petty theft, tax evasion, subversive groups and terrorist plots, all the way to lewd sex and drug activities - You name it.  Upon arriving, (early), for my test the polygrapher showed me the test room and machine, then took me back to his office to review the pretest questionnaire.  We spent about an hour and a half reviewing every single question and clarifying any of the minor transgressions to which I admitted. 

He then had me listen to a short tape that explained how the machine works and that it is fool proof. Afterwards, he explained that during the in-test phase I would be asked about 12 question.  He further explained that he would now review these questions with me, in advance, and that I must feel comfortable answering the questions truthfully, as the test will record even minor deception.  He assured me that I would not be asked any questions other than what we were about to review.  We reviewed the questions, made clarifications to a couple of what I felt were vague/subjective questions, (probably control questions which did leave some minor nagging doubt), and then he told me to take a bathroom break and sit in the hall while he set up the machine.  

Ten minutes later he took me back to the testing room and seated me with my back to him and the machine. He hooked me up, made sure I was as comfortable as one can be under the  circumstances and then instructed me to be very still while he made adjustments.  He asked me if I was athletic and commented that my breathing was very slow, regular and shallow.  I commented back that I like to run and work out.  He then announced that the test was about to begin, that I should be very still and answer only yes or no. He would pause 20 to 30 seconds between questions.  To the best of my memory the test was as follows:

Polygrapher Announces - "The test has now begun."

1.  Is your name, (my name)?  Yes
2.  Are you currently in the city of, (my town)? Yes
3.  Do you intend to lie to me today?  No
4.  Have you ever done anything lewd?  No
5.  Have you ever engaged sex for money?  No
6.  Have you minimized any of the answers on your application
    for the purpose of employment?   No.
7.  Is today Wednesday? (today's day)  Yes
8.  Do you now or have you ever belonged to any subversive
    groups, (such as KKK, Skinheads, neo-nazi, etc.)?   No
9.  Have you been truthful about your use of drugs and 
    alcohol?   Yes
10. Have you ever done anything for which you could get
    in trouble?   No
11. Have you ever forced anyone to have sex against
    their will?  No
12. Have you ever had sex with a child?  No

The Polygrapher announces, "The test is now over. Remain still until the machine is disconnected."

He then disconnected everything, let me stretch, then repeated the test two more times with the questions in a different sequence.  The whole process took about 30 minutes. 

At the conclusion of my test he asked me if anything about the test was bothering me.  I answered No.  He then explained the charts would be read by himself, then read independently by another polygrapher that had not met me.  The results would be submitted with my background investigation and I should hear something within two weeks. He shook my hand and said good bye. I had no post test interview.  Several weeks later personnel followed up with my drug screen and physical.  I was never told I passed but two other applicants, I was training with, were immediately informed that they had be disqualified during a post test interview. 

I was truthful and had nothing to hide.  I'm about as crooked as Beaver Cleaver, (hence the name). I guess the machine worked in this case, or at least the polygrapher believed me. (I feel strongly opinion plays a part in this subjective test.)  However, I did have a very negative experience with a polygraph test many years ago in college. 

I was working a part-time college job in a large chain store back in the mid 80's.  Evidentially the department in which I worked had a repeating shortage in one of the cash drawers.  This cash register was shared by numerous employees including me.  Everyone in the department was asked to take a polygraph.  I knew I had not taken even one dime and cheerfully agreed to the test in order to prove my innocence.  Imagine my shock when the polygrapher gets in my face, after the test, and tells me that he knows I took money, (note - not that I failed the test), and that I must immediately resign my job and sign a typed confession or the store may call the police and prosecute me!! Being only 19 and very naive, I was so stunned and terrified by the idea of involving the police, (not to mention my parents and school), that I would have signed a confession to murder if it got me out there. Three of my coworkers met with the same fate that day. Ironically, the person truly responsible was later caught red handed, with his hand in drawer, and was also found to have a prior record for possession of a controlled substance - Hummm???

During my recent pre-poly interview my polygrapher asked if I had ever taken a poly before.  I told him this story and he was actually sympathetic and explained the laws were changed in the later 80's to prevent such abuse of power.  Needless to say I have little faith in the machine as an objective truth finder.  I see it as a subjective tool used as a means to support the interrogator's pre-form opinion.  I'm a very good judge of character. I honesty feel my preemployment LE polygrapher had a good feeling about me and I passed in his mind before I was every hooked up. Lucky me this time. 

My best advise is get a conservative hair cut, dress professionally, arrive early, appear relaxed, show respect, (yes sir-no sir), make good eye contact and let them see you are an honest and  worthy candidate.  If you use counter measures I hope you'll report back what you did and the outcome.

Good Luck!
The Beav

I PASSED!!!!

Thanks for the post Beav.  I did my poly just recently and it went very well.  I'll give you the run down.  First of all I'd like to say that i didn't lie on my test at all.  I don't know any of you so I have no reason to lie.  The first thing we did was the pre poly interview in which we went over 75 questions ranging from beastiality to drug use.  From those questions the polygrapher used fifteen questions on the test.  The polygrapher then hooked me up to the machine and said they wanted to "callibrate the equipment" .  As soon as the pneumographs went on I payed attention to my breathing.  I made each breath 3 seconds in and 3 seconds out.  I was told to pick a card and not show it.  The polygrapher then started counting out numbers and told me to lie when they hit the number I picked.  The polygrapher told me my readings were off the charts !!  I really felt like asking to see all the cards but decided against that (hehe).  The polygrapher then instructed me to close my eyes and focus on the questions.  It turned out the test format was Relevant/Irrelevant.  during the questions I just focused on something relaxing.  After the questions the polygrapher said that some of the questions were bothering me and asked if there was something I wanted to talk about.  I said no and she promptly informed me that I passed and the test was over.

All in all it was pretty painless.  I think most police departments these days are coming to the realization that they wont be able to hire just angels who have never done anything wrong and for the most part will forgive a lot of your mistakes depending on how long ago you made them.  They really just want to make sure you are telling the truth on your application.  I'm not in any way condoning the use of the polygraph but I think that if you are considering a job with a police department, get a feel for what is acceptable and what isn't then tell them the bad shit you've done.  I told then stuff I thought for sure would get me DQ'ed but they just shrugged and said that it happened a long time ago and everyone makes mistakes.

             Just my opinion.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions and for helping me get informed before my test.

Quote:


I'm sorry, Polycop, but according to your other posts countermeasures such as employed by 'Canuck' should have immediately caused a disqualification and an accusation of the use of countermeasures, right? Was it:

1. Just a bad hair day for the polygrapher.

2. The polygrapher was too stupid to discern countermeasures (regardless of whether or not the examinee was lying, he *was* controlling his breathing, right?)

3. Possible that countermeasures such as described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector are indistinguishable from 'genuine' (non-augmented) responses? 

I'm of the mind that it's number three.

Polycop,

You wrote:

Quote:


Could you explain what you mean by this? DoDPI recognizes 12 scorable pneumograph reactions, which are now illustrated in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. A subject who decides to use countermeasures can readily avoid producing any of these while answering the relevant questions.

You also wrote:

Quote:


The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is not "hawked" on this website: it is given away for free. If readers who choose to employ countermeasures have paid attention when reading the section on behvioral countermeasures (in Ch. 4), they won't come "swaggering" into your polygraph chamber--they'll be courteous and appear to be fully cooperative, behaving just as the polygraph community has come to expect truthful subjects to behave.