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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Yet another CVSA question (Read 18446 times)
eisenmann372002
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Yet another CVSA question
May 15th, 2002 at 5:01am
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Good day, all; I took a CVSA exam today, as required, in the hiring process for a local public safety agency. I have *always* seen the "lie detector machines" as a complete load of crap...and as an aside, I am absolutely amazed at how ferociously these polygraph/VSA examiners defend their precious machines and occupations. I totally agree that they MAY help to get confessions or admissions from truly ignorant people, but to rely on the ability of these machines to discern the truth from lies in any person is asinine. So, stepping off my soapbox, I'd like to describe what happened today, and to hear what opinions anyone would like to offer.

I sat down with a "background investigator" (a detective for the local P.D.) to go over some documents and my pre-employment questionnaire. After spending 15-20 minutes with him, I was turned over to another detective who was to administer my CVSA. The second detective was very, VERY talkative and pleasant (he also prompted me to speak many times), and I almost had the impression that the "machine" was being calibrated as I spoke. Unless he had a foot operated lever, though, I saw no way for him to be isolating my voice/responses from his own voice. After 5 minutes or so of pleasantries and describing how the machine worked, he went over the questions. He stated there were only four "relevant" questions, four "irrelevant" questions, and two "control" questions. He didn't use the word "control", but stated that he wanted me to lie when asked these two questions. The relevant questions to the best of my memory: have I stolen anything over $50 in value from an employer, had I committed an undetected crime that would DQ me from the position, had I used illegal drugs in the last two years, and had I purposefully omitted info from my application. I don't remember all the other questions, but he asked me to lie about if the lights in the room were on, and if he had a mustache. He explained that occasionally he might hit the "trigger" button for the CVSA detector either too early or too late to capture my response, and would have to back up and repeat the question. This sounded like crap to me; to be that uncoordinated in a slow, deliberate interview seemed very unlikely.

We went through a practice run of it first. Then, we went through the entire series of "yes" or "no" questions three separate times. On a couple of questions, as warned, he had to "back up" and repeat a question. I honestly can't recall if it was for the same question on all three runs, or on at least two of the runs. After each run, he took about 2 minutes to click and point and review the results.

After the third cycle, he said that we were finished and that their Human Resources Dept. would be in touch with me. I didn't ask any questions so as not to raise suspicions. I know from reading other posts that the lack of a post-test interview was a good sign. This just seemed way too quick (although I'm used to the polygraph sessions from taking a couple of them), and the fact that he asked NOTHING about any of my responses reallllllly made me a bit nervous on the drive home. Given the less-accuracy-than-a-coin-toss probability rate for these machines, I would expect to have been asked about at least ONE of my responses. Am I reading too much into this and being paranoid, or did I crash and burn so badly that it wasn't worth asking me about?? Thanks for reading, and George and Gino...more power to you, soldiers! I'm glad someone has really taken these..."sciences"...to task.
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #1 - May 16th, 2002 at 6:41am
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He explained that occasionally he might hit the "trigger" button for the CVSA detector either too early or too late to capture my response, and would have to back up and repeat the question. This sounded like crap to me; to be that uncoordinated in a slow, deliberate interview seemed very unlikely.


Actually, he was telling the truth about this. When a friend (who is both a certified CVSA examiner and skeptic) demonstrated the CVSA for me, this happened several times. If the subject's response is not loud enough, it may also be necessary to repeat the question.

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Am I reading too much into this and being paranoid, or did I crash and burn so badly that it wasn't worth asking me about??


Of course, one cannot know what opinion the CVSA seer will ultimately render, but it sounds as if there is cause for optimism.
  

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eisenmann372002
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #2 - May 16th, 2002 at 9:58am
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Well George, whether you're wrong or right about this, I sure feel better inexplicably. Thank you!!!

Moi
  
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FormerOfficer
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #3 - May 17th, 2002 at 7:14pm
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eisenmann372002 wrote on May 16th, 2002 at 9:58am:
Well George, whether you're wrong or right about this, I sure feel better inexplicably. Thank you!!!

Moi


Don't sweat it!  just remain calm and answer all the questions.  I skated by mine once before, and three of the questions I was not telling the truth on...

  
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Batman (Guest)
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #4 - May 17th, 2002 at 10:47pm
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Former Officer:

Don't mean to crash the party, but is there anything you are willing to tel the truth on?  I'm starting to get a little concerned that our relationship may be based on some real falsehoods on your part.  How can I believe anything you tell me when you are so willing to admit how much you lie?

If you tell her you love her in the morning, should she believe you?  I have my doubts.  How about you turn over a new leaf right now, as you're reading this message?  Come to the good side of the force, try telling the truth just once.  You may find that you like it, and you might just legitimately pass one of these type "lie detector" tests.

By the way, why is you you have to take so many of these "lie detector" tests anyway?  Is it possibly because nobody trusts you to tell the truth?  Just wondering.

Batman
  
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beech trees
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #5 - May 18th, 2002 at 6:24am
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Batman wrote on May 17th, 2002 at 10:47pm:
Former Officer:

Don't mean to crash the party, but is there anything you are willing to tel the truth on?



I ask the same question of you, batman. Will you now promise to stop lying to your polygraph interrogation subjects and deal with them in a truthful manner? Will you stop lying to them about 'calibrating the device', and the hocus-pocus mumbo-jumbo 'stim test'?

Quote:
I'm starting to get a little concerned that our relationship may be based on some real falsehoods on your part.  How can I believe anything you tell me when you are so willing to admit how much you lie?


Who is the better man, the admitted liar or the one who adamantly refuses to admit he's been caught out red-handed?

Quote:
If you tell her you love her in the morning, should she believe you?  I have my doubts.  How about you turn over a new leaf right now, as you're reading this message?  Come to the good side of the force, try telling the truth just once.


Why not take your own incredibly bombastic advice? Try telling the truth just once about the travesty of a sham of a pseudo-science polygraphy really is.

Quote:
By the way, why is you you have to take so many of these "lie detector" tests anyway?  Is it possibly because nobody trusts you to tell the truth?  Just wondering.


Perhaps the polygrapher is trying to pad his wallet? Seems highly plausible to me.
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #6 - May 18th, 2002 at 8:21am
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Batman wrote on May 17th, 2002 at 10:47pm:
Former Officer:

Don't mean to crash the party, but is there anything you are willing to tel the truth on?  I'm starting to get a little concerned that our relationship may be based on some real falsehoods on your part.  How can I believe anything you tell me when you are so willing to admit how much you lie?

If you tell her you love her in the morning, should she believe you?  I have my doubts.  How about you turn over a new leaf right now, as you're reading this message?  Come to the good side of the force, try telling the truth just once.  You may find that you like it, and you might just legitimately pass one of these type "lie detector" tests.

By the way, why is you you have to take so many of these "lie detector" tests anyway?  Is it possibly because nobody trusts you to tell the truth?  Just wondering.

Batman



Batman,
  Worry all you wish.  I stated before, that there are some subjects which are taboo in LE , and will get you DQ'd in a heartbeat.  CSVA is a joke.  It does not work at all.  I know that for a fact.
   Did I lie - yes.  I admit it (telling the truth...lol) all three questions were basically related. 

I ask you - What does them knowing of actions in my past have ANYTHING to do with the present?   Nothing.  It is a tool used selectivly to destroy the career intentions of good people. 

  I'm sorry if your mother dropped you on your head when you were a baby, but the truth is NOT always the best answer. 
  Especially in this day and age.   Not on some subjects when it pertains to a pre-employment exam.

If you cannot live with that, well too bad.  Perhaps you'll take solace in knowing that I may be one of the guys pulling you over one night when you speed by....lol.


Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #7 - Jun 17th, 2002 at 10:35pm
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...Perhaps you'll take solace in knowing that I may be one of the guys pulling you over one night when you speed by....lol.


Roll Eyes



And judging by your own statements regarding your lack of honesty, I suspect you will be more than happy to accept my bribe and not give me a ticket... Roll Eyes

Polycop...

  
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beech trees
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #8 - Jun 18th, 2002 at 5:22pm
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And judging by your own statements regarding your lack of honesty, I suspect you will be more than happy to accept my bribe and not give me a ticket... Roll Eyes

Polycop...




That's rich, coming from a professional liar.
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #9 - Jul 15th, 2002 at 12:13pm
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eisenmann372002 - dude, what the... you start a nice topic and you disappear?  It's been two months.  Did you get a result yet?  I keep checking back to see what happened to you.

Batman and Polycop: I cannot wait to get past my CVSA and become an officer, to pin bastards like you who hide behind badges.  You take pride in protecting your own corruption, and you forget that you have sworn to actually protect the people.  Cops like you abuse people, and give law enforcement a bad name.
  
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eisenmann372002
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #10 - Jul 15th, 2002 at 9:55pm
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Privacy,

Didn't even know I was being checked up on. I actually appreciate the interest.

NO, I have STILL not heard anything. I am trying very hard not to be a pain in the ass to their HR Department, but I literally have not been contacted one single time...be it to tell me I'm disqualified, or that I failed the CVSA, or even that the background exams on all qualified applicants are still in progress. I emailed them three times without a reply before calling. I did this as a courtesy (I like email because I can read it at MY leisure, and I assume others might feel the same). They never have anything new to tell me. What a pain in the ass....you'd think after three departments that I'd remember how much the hiring process sucks. Sad I can PROMISE, though, that as soon as I find something out....good or bad....I'll let ya'll know. Thanks for the note!

Eis
  
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #11 - Jul 15th, 2002 at 10:33pm
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eisenmann372002,

Thank you for responding.  I personally am about a month away from my CVSA test, the very first one ever, and that explains my interest and anxiety in getting more information.  About sending them e-mails I would see that as being a very safe method as well.  Who knows, maybe they have a CVSA machine hooked up to the telephone, and decide you lied when checking on your status Smiley  I'm checking the board on a daily basis, itching to find out more and more.  Thanks again for the respond, and I look forward to hear more from you.
  
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #12 - Jul 16th, 2002 at 9:39pm
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And judging by your own statements regarding your lack of honesty, I suspect you will be more than happy to accept my bribe and not give me a ticket... Roll Eyes

Polycop...




Umm, No thanks - perhaps that is the way you do business, but I don't go that way.  Not all is black and white.

The sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll suceed in life, and stop being a loser.....

BTW - I was recently hired by a local agency, and they were very happy to have me.
  
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #13 - Jul 16th, 2002 at 9:42pm
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eisenmann372002,

Thank you for responding.  I personally am about a month away from my CVSA test, the very first one ever, and that explains my interest and anxiety in getting more information.  About sending them e-mails I would see that as being a very safe method as well.  Who knows, maybe they have a CVSA machine hooked up to the telephone, and decide you lied when checking on your status Smiley  I'm checking the board on a daily basis, itching to find out more and more.  Thanks again for the respond, and I look forward to hear more from you.


hey bud, don't sweat it.  It is a breeze.  Just remain calm and keep your mind on "its a small world after all" and answer calmly.....

You'll pass.  If the tester tries to say you're a liar, look him straight in the eyes and tell him you're telling the complete truth.

NEVER admit anything, deny everything.
  
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eisenmann372002
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Re: Yet another CVSA question
Reply #14 - Sep 24th, 2002 at 9:44pm
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Ah, I completely forgot about this thread. Glad I checked up on my history! Ihavenoprivacy, if you're still here......yep, I passed the CVSA (hence my more recent posts, starting about three days ago), but apparently the fact that I went through *successful* substance abuse rehabilitation 12 years ago was a problem for them. Everyone has their own stories, I suppose...
  
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