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How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
May 7th, 2002 at 9:43pm
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I have the opportunity to take the poly over again in a few weeks with the LAPD.  I have been reading about the sting and the other poly manuals.

Id like to know how many people have tried and suceeded.

  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #1 - May 7th, 2002 at 10:06pm
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I asked a similar question of George, but I phrased it like this, has anyone ever reported failing the polygraph after using the book? He told me that the only report he had was one person who made damaging admissions failed. So basically everyone, to his knowledge, who has used the book passed.
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #2 - May 7th, 2002 at 10:51pm
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NotMeNotMe
I am curious how you got a second chance at taking the poly?  Did you appeal the 1st one after being notified that you failed (via the mail) or were you told after the test  itself that you had inconclusive results? Was the poly given to you before or after your background investigation was complete?
Also, have you had good luck speaking with your background investigator?????? Some that I know have ot and are quite frustrated! 
Thanks, and I look forward to your answers.
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #3 - May 9th, 2002 at 4:54am
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Actually when I applied for the LAPD I thought nothing of it really and I did not complete the application until I was at the testing facility.  Some of the administrtators complained that it was incomplete and other parts of the app were unreadable.  Oh well. 

I took a test passed that, I got an interview psch eval piss test phys and background invest and I paased it all.  I manage to irritate my background investigator since I couldnt remember all the loations I lived atr since I moved alot.

All in all in order to make it to the LAPD you just need to complete those processes.  Just complete not needed to do well.  Im reading about the sting and im gonna read georges pdf file too.

It is shocking how little you need to know or be qualified to be a cop.  All u need is a diploma, be healthy and pass the poly-SERIOUSLY
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #4 - May 9th, 2002 at 4:59am
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A highschool diploma

Also I wrote those personnel people a letter.  (I told them to carefully review my results and asked them to see if I failed to answer what is my true name also- cus i was a bit intimidated and I felt I chewed up in every question)  To be honest I didnt expect to get polyied but I did everything in 3 days phys and all.  They gave me another poly i really didnt ask for it.  But that is what they decided to do and I decided to take their offer.  The part where I got DQ was something I never did I swear. 

My problem is I get nervous alot.  I may not show it but I get nervous.  What can I do.  Hopefully knowledge is POWER.

  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #5 - May 9th, 2002 at 6:59am
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I’m just curious, what is your ethnical background? I have seen a lot of other people trying to get in with the LAPD and I have seen nothing but horror stories. I am amazed you were so flippant and so successful.
Also, read the book and you'll be fine, just remember to practice. If you go in knowing you will pass, you will. Read as many post in the section about sharing experiences (the third one) as you can and you will see just exactly what to expect, then as you are testing you will be able to determine the polygrapher's next words. It's almost comical.
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #6 - May 31st, 2002 at 5:57am
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I took the LAPD poly some time ago. Early this year and the poly guy said I neither failed nor passed, but needed to reschedule me for another poly b/c i was swallowing and moving my fingers. He said what is the problem? I replied "nothing." The first set of questions he said were atrocious. My breathing and whatever else he was measuring. So we'll see what happens the next time. I tried some anal puckering, but didn't on and off then on the 2nd set , did most anal puck. After the second set of questions he said there a little better than the first but he has nothing to work off of, whatver that means. I this torture just to join the worst police force in the world. He started telling me that they do this b/c of internal problems. start polying the internal folks, or do adequate BI...don't use the poly as the main source to the BI, that's why you have folks with history but no one every caught that paper trail. That's LAPD fault not the new candidates fault.
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #7 - May 31st, 2002 at 5:44pm
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Dear NotMeNotMe:

Maybe the better question would be, "Would you folks even tell me how many have used countermeasures and failed?". or
"Is it realistic to expect that somone who tried to use polygraph countermeasures would get back on this sight and admit they still failed?"  Figure the odds.  Gotta be more than just one.  If it is just one, then why so much pissing and moaning about polygraph?  If everyone was "beating" it, then who would care whether it is used or not.

My money says a lot of the folks who are dumb enough to use countermeasures get caught, they just don't come back to this site.  Look at the postings, always the same three or four folks giving "advice".  Kind of makes you wonder why, if there are so many out there who have been so successful in beating the box!

Batman
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #8 - May 31st, 2002 at 6:16pm
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Batman,

Quote:
If everyone was "beating" it, then who would care whether it is used or not.


Many people discover this website only after having been falsely accused of deception by a polygraph chartgazer, having not had any particular motivation to research polygraphy beforehand.

Quote:
My money says a lot of the folks who are dumb enough to use countermeasures get caught, they just don't come back to this site.  Look at the postings, always the same three or four folks giving "advice".  Kind of makes you wonder why, if there are so many out there who have been so successful in beating the box!


Why do you think it is dumb for a person to use countermeasures?
« Last Edit: May 31st, 2002 at 8:38pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #9 - May 31st, 2002 at 8:35pm
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Batman wrote on May 31st, 2002 at 5:44pm:
My money says a lot of the folks who are dumb enough to use countermeasures get caught, they just don't come back to this site.  Look at the postings, always the same three or four folks giving "advice".  Kind of makes you wonder why, if there are so many out there who have been so successful in beating the box!


I'm presuming from the ferocity of your posts that you are a polygrapher, or at least have some sort of financial interest in maintaining polygraphy in the screening process in law enforcement hiring.

May I ask, how many test subjects have you caught using the kinds of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector?
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #10 - Jun 23rd, 2002 at 4:15pm
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Countermeasures worked for me.

After reading "Lie Behind the Lie Detector" a few times I went into the test knowing what to expect... a big help. There was an incident at the office which I knew something about, but knowledge of the incident could have gotten me canned or may have forced me to rat someone out. After 13 years on the job, there was no way I was going to lose it all due to this voodoo crackpot of a test.

The woman giving the test did pretty much everything that "Lie Behind the Lie Detector" said she would. First, she showed me her "high-tech, state of the art" testing apparatus. It was a $1100 laptop. She also showed me the software she used from John Hopkins University that did the scoring for her. She showed me results of two tests she claims she did on her own- I don't know if she thought I was stupid or what, but the files she opened had the words "demo" in the file name. I almost laughed in her face. Afterwards, she sat on the back of her chair, one foot on the seat of her chair, and the other on the seat of my chair, forcing me to keep my legs squeezed together while she asked a bunch of questions. This went on for almost 30 minutes and was quite uncomfortable. This was her way of trying to get me to feel as though she was "in control".... far from it. I knew what she was up to, and again I found myself trying not to laugh in her face.
Then she hooked me up to the machine and made me sit there for another 20 minutes while she typed the questions into to her cheesy laptop, then she printed them. She sat on the desk, practically right on top of me, and reviewed the questions.
Then, the test.
It was a direct-question test (I think that's the name of it). There were no "control" questions, just direct ones. "Did you do this" and "Did you ever do that". When she asked the questions about things that had nothing to do with why I was in there, I did the butt-squeeze thing. Most importantly, I paid close attention to my breathing. I made sure that it was consistent. In fact, answering her questions came second- breathing was most important and my first priority.
Keeping your cool and relaxing, and not being intimidated by the tester or the machine is also important.

Anyhoo, I still have my job and passed with flying colors.

Thanks, antipolygraph.org. You saved my career.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fred F.
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #11 - Jun 24th, 2002 at 2:29am
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Debtman,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

You have shown that knowledge is power and that countermeasures do work when applied correctly.


Now you should make sure that your co-workers who may be subject to testing also are aware of this website.


Way to Go!!!


Fred F. Wink
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #12 - Jun 27th, 2002 at 11:38am
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Yes,

Countermeasures do work! Now if we could get all our politicians to have to take a polygraph. America would have less corruption. Probably, the polygraph would be outlawed.
As a person who had to take many polygraphs, I think it's the biggest intrusion into ones privacy ever. Anything embarrasing that happened in ones life is revealed. I support banning the polygraph. Since, I dont have to take them anymore. I will do everything in my power to help support outlawing them. Polygraphers do TRY to employ BULLYING tactics to gain CONTROL over the indiviual. Nobody knows how it feels until they are FORCED to be hooked up to a machine. Forcing someone to take a polygraph to get a job in america is just a joke. At one of my tests the polygrapher was joking about all the countermeasures that are freely available on the Internet. I dont know what the hell brought up that conversation. But, he was like hinting he KNOWS ALL THE SECRET COUNTERMEASURES. Don't fall for it. Never admit employing countermeasures even if confronted by it. If your polygraph is INCONCLUSIVE. Sell your polygrapher on the IDEA that no particular question BUGGED you. In most cases, If he believes you he will PASS YOU. Be polite and respectful at all times. It's like going to a job interview and you want a job. Kiss his butt and make him like you. Don't be a jerk, cause he may think there is something you are hiding. Everyone has skeletons in their own closets they wouldnt dare tell a soul. To force someone to admit to something very embarrasing can create long term effects on his self esteem. I am so surprised this polygraph hasn't been bashed by the Supreme court yet. It's funny it wont fly in the court of law. Well then why is it even allowed in the good ole USA. This polygraph must be stopped soon the longer it goes on the worse it will get. Hell pretty soon you may have to take one to get your license renewed. Think this is far fetched. Mark my words down the road.

We need some powerful attorneys that stand up for the constitution involved in making the proper petitions to have this argued in the highest courts. The techniquies offered on this site PROVES within a reasonable doubt that its just body reactions that cause a person to pass or fail. Interrigation techniques are employed to get one really nervous before he even takes the test.

LOL! Enough babbling for now! Thank you to all users that share similar ideas on banning the polygraph.
  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #13 - Jun 27th, 2002 at 11:53am
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BTW: Don't listen to these IDIOT polygraphers. If the countermeasures don't work the first time. Try again and again until they do work. Don't give up hope.  You will pass it's all in your ATTITUDE. Dont let mind games from polygraphers get in the way. They are just mad cause this site makes their job more difficult. Why else are they here? They want to learn all the newest techniques because their job's are hanging by the thread having books and information freely available on the internet.

You must pass the relevant questions. Plain and simple.

The other 5 questions they ask you are irrelevant to the test.

Make sure the control questions you give those ole butt cheeks a squeezin.... Not to much tho or it puts the lines off the chart.... hahaha!

Relevant questions "Have you ever ......."
                         "Besides what you told me today, Have you ever"

Control questions "Is there anything on this test that I didnt ask you that you are afraid I will ask?"


ETC ETC... Read the book.....

  
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Re: How Many People Passed Using Countermeasures
Reply #14 - Jun 27th, 2002 at 7:57pm
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Quote:
If the countermeasures don't work the first time. Try again and again until they do work. Don't give up hope.  You will pass it's all in your ATTITUDE.


When done properly, there would be no need to do it again and again. The *only* way a polygrapher can ascertain if you did or did not use countermeasures is if you tell him. That does not preclude the polygrapher from arbitrarily accusing you of using them. I have heard from more than a few people that their polygraph interrogator told them flat out in the 'pre-test interview' that they were presumed guilty until proven innocent by their magic spirit box.
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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