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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Honesty is better than deception (Read 40599 times)
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #45 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 6:24am
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Duc...

You would make an outstanding Lawyer...

You have a great way of totally misleading people.

Did anyone who has taken Duc's side even bother to take the time to look at the private message Duc had sent me (that I copied and pasted onto the board)...?

Liar-Liar stated,
Quote:
The #12 Post and all that makes sense as your defense...


Did Liar-Liar even bother to read my post???
Quote:
Duc748
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Posts:  11
(No Subject) on:  2/28/02 at 13:52:32

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Netnin:  You are almost as utterly pathetic as the so- called "men" who are running this site.  I find it absolutely entertaining to come see what lousy excuses you liars come up with in each new post that you put out.  To listen to an ex- FBI agent and self-proclaimed "military hero"  try and rationalize why they are helping criminals and liars pass the polygraph test is almost as entertaining as going to the movies.  I seriously doubt the validity of their prior professional  positions.  Like I said,  the only reason one would risk using countermeasures is because they are liars.  Only the truly truthful deserve spots in law enforcement.  Since you have claimed to have used countermeasures to try and pass a polygraph test,  I conclude that you are untruthful and undeserving of any spot on any law enforcement agency.  And to respond to your earlier statement:  No...I wouldn't want someone like you covering my back.

Duc748


You all seem to have missed the fact that Duc changed his 11 to a 12 when he copied and quoted my(his private message to me) post  (Duc copying and editing my post):

Quote:
Duc748:

Are you going to claim that you didn't send the following post?

Duc748
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(No Subject) on:  2/28/02 at 13:52:32

 


I'll have to admit I totally missed what you were trying to pull off...I wasn't even concerned about the numbers (or looking at them for that matter):
Quote:
Duc748

I think that is the absolutely poorest excuse I have heard from you yet in you attempts to cover up the fact that you have insulted everyone and anyone who frequents this board.

Kind of like the pathological liar who continues to make things up until they are backed up against the wall...and then THEY STILL make things up!

Do you think the masses of intelligent people who frequent this board are going to fall for your illogical defense?

Duc...I expected better than that from you.

Quote:However, you neglected to check the number of posts that I have made. Amazingly enough, I have two #12 posts. The one you just made up, and my true post #12 here on this thread which I wrote to Drew at 14:36. Kind of hard to have made a 12th post (according to you) at 13:52. Don't you think?  

Do you really believe that the people that read this board are going to overlook the fact that a PRIVATE MESSAGE is not considered a post/not added in to the "total posts" sum?  

Your 12th post is your 12th post,  and your 13th your 13th.
Private messages aren't considered posts,  and most who use this site are aware of that.  Nice try,  but the people who use this site aren't the pathetic people you claim them to be.

Netnin    


What I thought you were trying to say was that your private message to me counted as a post--when in actuality you were trying to turn this whole thing around on me.

I haven't given you enough credit Duc...you are much more sneaky than I thought.  The FBI will undoubtedly benefit from your employment.  You just better hope your boss isn't like me...if they are you better not try and pull anything over them, because you will DEFINITELY get caught.

  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #46 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 6:40am
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Netnin,
     You really need help.
  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #47 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 6:43am
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What's wrong Ducster?  Run out of defenses?

You know you really quack me up.   Cheesy

(yeah you're right...this is the hottest damn chain of posts on the boards!)

Wink
« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2002 at 8:06pm by MissionPoly-ban »  
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FOR THE RECORD
Reply #48 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 1:40pm
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While it is AntiPolygraph.org's policy to not to censor posts to this message board, the need has arisen to set the record straight.

In a message to this thread dated 28 February 2002 at 15:02 hrs and last modified at 2203 hrs, registered user Netnin posted what purports to be the text of a private message dated 28 February 2002 at 13:52:32 from registered user Duc748.

Because of the derogatory nature of Netnin's claim, and the unprecedented controversy that has ensued, we have taken the unprecedented step of referring to the website's access log file to verify the truth of the matter, which is that no private message was posted to the message board at 13:52:32 hours on 28 February 2002, or within the ten minutes before and after.

Netnin, to send a profane private message and then falsely deny it reflects poorly on one's judgment and credibility, but to fabricate defamatory words and falsely attribute them to others is downright slanderous. Such behavior is unwelcome here. Please cease and desist.
  

AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
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Re: FOR THE RECORD
Reply #49 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 7:05pm
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Thank you Administrator. Appreciate the help.
  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #50 - Mar 1st, 2002 at 8:30pm
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I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Duc, and to all those who I have misled.  I am simply a sicko who thrives in the light of controversy.  

Upon recognition of Duc748's strong character,  competitive nature,  and strong will,  I found him to be an easy target for a posted verbal war...something I tend to get off on.

But let us not forget Duc's first post that started this chain--a cocky post that expressed the power-trip he is experiencing now that he is in with the Feds.  Hell...the guy came in here shooting his mouth off like a cannon in the 100-years war.

And please...I ask that no one take the time to prove or disprove whether or not cannons were used during the 100-years war...it was a lousy attempt at a joke.  (By the way...how long did the 100-year war last?)

But,  as I said,  the Duc has strong character and a strong will.  He took criticism well,  and took part in extensive dialogue to help further understand the fraud behind the polygraph.  (Though I find that he still seems to fall into the "institutionalized thinking" catagory,  as Taz had suggested.)  

I must say though,  I did a pretty good job of deceiving people.  My ability to falsify a private message with great precision,  create a nearly full-proof defense for every mistake I made (note:  the mistake I made by not looking at the time of the posts),  and dramatically turn the tables on Duc shows that I have a truly MAD mind.  

The fact that the administrators had to clarify the situation by checking the post log is proof enough of my effective ability to create and modify lies into solid defenses.  

I bid peace to all,  and to all a good morning,  noon,  and night!

Netninio the Sickio

(Ahhh...the beauty of the anonymity of the internet!)


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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #51 - Mar 2nd, 2002 at 6:07pm
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Duc,

I am worry what will become of your faith when you eventually fail a polygraph.  Just telling the truth, regardless of how much you believe that, will not guarantee that you will "pass."

If it is any indication, I told the complete truth on two seperate "tests", one I was labeled a liar and druggie, the other, I "passed" with flying colors.  This should raise your eyebrows regarding the accuracy of this "test."  If it doesn't, then perhaps you ARE just the sort of agent the feds are looking for. 

Good luck in your career.
  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #52 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 3:00am
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Eyes Wide Open...

Trust me...he is exactly what the Feds are looking for.

Totally loyal to authority,  accepting their words as a devout Christian might accept the word of God.

I'm not going to suggest that something will go wrong,  but could you imagine if Duc's polygraph results show deception some day down the road...even though he knew that he told the truth?

I could just see him now...after years of total loyalty and dedication,  he would run up to his boss and say,  "But you guys aren't going to believe those results are you?  You've watched me grow into a dedicated, loyal,  and professional agent.  Surely you will give me another chance to prove my innocence....to show something went wrong during the test...?"

And then the dark cold reality will set in....

His boss's look that always was so accepting and warm and kind will turn to a cold and unaccepting stare...a stare like he has been betrayed. 

Years of creating a life solely dedicated and based around
a career in the FBI right

                            down

                                 t
                                  h
                                   e
                                      d
                                        r
                                          a
                                            i
                                             n.



...All because of a machine thought up by the creator of a comic strip.  Humorous?  I think not.



  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #53 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 4:38am
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Duc,
I am worried what will become of your faith when you eventually fail a polygraph.  Just telling the truth, regardless of how much you believe that, will not guarantee that you will "pass."

And who says I have faith in the polygraph? All I'm saying here is that I told the truth and passed my poly. I'm also saying that I would avoid the use of countermeasures, for it, too, will not garauntee you pass the poly. I do believe the being truthful is far better than being dishonest. Call it a fault of mine if you'd like. And by the way, I never plan to take a poly again. I've been in the intelligence field for too long now, and I don't ever want to deal with this field again, ergo nullifying my need to take another one.

Quote:
If it is any indication, I told the complete truth on two seperate "tests", one I was labeled a liar and druggie, the other, I "passed" with flying colors.  This should raise your eyebrows regarding the accuracy of this "test."  If it doesn't, then perhaps you ARE just the sort of agent the feds are looking for.  
Good luck in your career.

The polygraph is not a "test", and no one, not even polygraphers, will say it's 100% accurate. This is why I was given 6 different runs on my poly.
As for your comments directed towards the FBI, I take it they are the ones that failed you. It seems that a lot of people on this board have their anger directed towards this one agency. That's unfortunate, but I hope that you have gotten into the field you were looking for and are doing well. Cheers.
  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #54 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 4:54am
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Duc748,

You wrote:

Quote:
The polygraph is not a "test", and no one, not even polygraphers, will say it's 100% accurate.


Agreed. But federal polygraphers will falsely claim to subjects that it's, say, 98% accurate.
  

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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #55 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 6:03am
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George,
     My polygrapher didn't give me a percentage, but he did say it's not an exact science. I think the idea is to take several samples and note the question(s) that continue to present problems. If that one or two questions continue to spike, say after 6 runs, then it's safe to assume the subject hs issues with that question. At least that's how it looked to me and that makes sense. I mean if a guy shows no spikes on every question but one or two, that tells me deception is being shown.
     Okay, before anyone flames me on what I just said, that's my take on what the process "looks" like in my view. I may very well be wrong and if so, please tell me.
  
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #56 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 10:55am
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Duc748,

You're wrong, as you predicted you might be. A person might show a physiological response to a question for any number of reasons, none of which necessarily have anything to do with deception, such as embarrassment, anger, and importantly, fear of the consequences of not being believed. As David Lykken has explained, any physiological response that you might show when telling a lie, you might exhibit another time, when you are telling the truth.
  

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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #57 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 3:21pm
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Duc748,

Although I have been occupied over the last couple of days and during  numerous successive posts to this thread, I would like to return to what I believe was your last reply to me.  You suggested a statement that I had made was simplistic as an analogy, but humorous in content.  Actually I intended neither.  I simply stated that which I believed to be factual, your preceeding and quoted statement having been taken at face value.  But with regard to analogies that might be made...I would agree with an assessment that the victimization of thousand's of polygraph screening victims is qualitatively and quantitatively different than the extermination of six million Jews in Eastern Europe during World War II.  If one were to draw an analogy it would not be from that comparison, but in the responsibility that you as a future FBI agent share with a German Gestapo agent of the past.  You both clearly and equally share the responsibility to evaluate critically the activities of your respective bureaucracies and to boldly oppose unethical and invalid practices that lead to victimization.  Willful ignorance on either of your parts is totally unacceptable.  Looking the other way out of personal or bureaucratic loyalties will just not do.  And there the possible parallel and or analogy might lie...
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #58 - Mar 3rd, 2002 at 10:58pm
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The FBI Oath:

I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear to support, uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to obey the lawful orders and directives of those appointed before and above me, and that I enter into this office without any mental reservation whatsoever, so help me GOD.

  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Re: Honesty is better than deception
Reply #59 - Mar 4th, 2002 at 12:22am
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Quote:
The FBI Oath:
I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear to support, uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to obey the lawful orders and directives of those appointed before and above me, and that I enter into this office without any mental reservation whatsoever, so help me GOD.


beech trees, here's what we say in the military and those appointed to congress, senate and office of the President. We have one portion that should be added to the FBI (in bold)...

'I "name", do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely; without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. 
So help me God.'

I've taken this oath several times at each promotion in the military.
  
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