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failed polygraph - what to do? (Read 6793 times)

JSho New User Offline Posts: 10 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2002	failed polygraph - what to do? Feb 23^rd, 2002 at 5:08pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I already knew that I had failed the polygraph with one of the police departments I have applied to. He told me immediately after the test so I am over the shock and depression. I was completely honest but as we all know, that does not matter. The examiner told me I would be called back to do a second polygraph which was also what I was told at the orientation. But yesterday I received a letter saying my application was no longer being considered. I called and they confirmed it was because of the poly. I had decided this department was not right for me anyway (very big with a bad safety record). I am much more interested in another smaller department I am currently applying to. My question is, should I appeal just so I don't have a black mark on my record as having failed a poly and not protested? I just don't want this to haunt me later on.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Online Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #1 - Feb 23^rd, 2002 at 5:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	You should definitely appeal and demand a "re-test." Your failure to do so may be interpreted as meaning that you accept the polygrapher's conclusion regarding your honesty and integrity. Be sure to send your letter of appeal by certified, return receipt mail. And if you haven't already done so, it would be prudent to draft a memorandum regarding the content of your phone call yesterday. See Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for some additional tips.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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JSho New User Offline Posts: 10 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2002	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #2 - Feb 23^rd, 2002 at 8:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	OK, I sort of expected that answer - it makes sense. The only thing that frightens me is I know I will probably be even more anxious the next time I take it and may very well fail again. Could I appeal and then later tell them I've dropped out of the application process because I have found another job? Would that leave my final record with that department as "Appealed" as opposed to "failed poly"?


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Online Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #3 - Feb 23^rd, 2002 at 8:50pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: Would that leave my final record with that department as "Appealed" as opposed to "failed poly"? I have no idea... If you are offered a "re-test" after you appeal, you might consider taking it and using countermeasures to protect yourself against a false positive outcome (see Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for details).

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Propoly New User Offline Posts: 10 Joined: Mar 28^th, 2002	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #4 - Mar 28^th, 2002 at 9:00pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	As long as you're honest when the questioned is asked, you shouldn't have a problem. You just listed a number of shortcomings with that particular department, and maybe thats not a place you want to work anyway. Sometimes things work out for the best. Good luck with future polygraph examinations. Remember, the one and only way to pass the test is to tell the TRUTH.


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G Scalabr Global Moderator Offline Posts: 358 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #5 - Mar 29^th, 2002 at 4:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: Propoly: Remember, the one and only way to pass the test is to tell the TRUTH. Hogwash. Peer-reviewed scientific research indicates otherwise. A 1994 study by Charles R. Honts, David C. Raskin, and John C. Kircher (Journal of Applied Psychology, 1994, Vol. 79, No. 2, 252-259) revealed that 50% of college students were able to beat an experienced examiner with only one-half hour of training (this training consisted of having instructions read to the subjects by graduate students). But the only way to pass is to tell the truth, right? Spoken like a true polygraph examiner angered at the fact this his fraudulent trade is being exposed. Bluffing, deception, and other forms of intimidation may work on uninformed subjects in your polygraph suite. By attempting to fool the educated readers visitors of AntiPolygraph.org with deceptive and self-serving statements like the one above, you merely underscore the point we are trying to make.


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JSho New User Offline Posts: 10 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2002	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #6 - Mar 29^th, 2002 at 9:50am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	In an ideal world!!! I took your advice, Propoly, when I took the test and told nothing but the complete truth and was very confident that if I did just that, I would sail right through it. It's almost a joke what a "goody-goody" I've always been so there wasn't a whole lot to fess up to but I got everything out before the test and answered each question with absolute honesty. What a shock it was when I was told I had failed. It really was an entire day before I came out of the daze I was left in after that horrible experience of being branded a liar by a machine. I don't have time at this moment to get the link for you but there was a good article in the March 28th Miami Herald on the front page questioning the polygraph as it pertains to a Cuban spy (the spy passed).


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propoly2 Guest	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #7 - Mar 29^th, 2002 at 6:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	It's the polygrapher's fault if you failed and was honest with him. That's where the blame lies my friend. It seems that the polygraphers form an opinion of you during the pre-poly interview, and if he didn't like you for whatever reason, he failed you.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Online Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6230 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #8 - Mar 29^th, 2002 at 6:27pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	propoly2, Quote: It's the polygrapher's fault if you failed and was honest with him. That's where the blame lies my friend. How can you know this to be true? Could it not just as well be the case that the polygrapher performed the examination in accordance with accepted standards of the polygraph community, and that the "test" result was simply wrong? Why is the problem necessarily with the polygrapher, and not with the polygraph technique itself?

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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beech trees God Member Offline Posts: 593 Joined: Jun 22^nd, 2001 Gender:	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #9 - Mar 31^st, 2002 at 7:24pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Propoly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2002 at 9:00pm: As long as you're honest when the questioned is asked, you shouldn't have a problem. Propoly, did you and I read the same thing? Did not JSho write: I already knew that I had failed the polygraph with one of the police departments I have applied to. He told me immediately after the test so I am over the shock and depression. I was completely honest but as we all know, that does not matter. Quote: Remember, the one and only way to pass the test is to tell the TRUTH. The above anecdote directly refutes your gratuitous assertion. Either you're deluding yourself or attempting to delude others. Either way, we're not buying what you're selling, Propoly.

	"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
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Fred F. Very Senior User Offline Get Educated.... Knowledge is Power Posts: 225 Joined: Apr 4^th, 2001	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #10 - Apr 1^st, 2002 at 3:42am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: It's the polygrapher's fault if you failed and was honest with him. That's where the blame lies my friend. It seems that the polygraphers form an opinion of you during the pre-poly interview, and if he didn't like you for whatever reason, he failed you. ProPoly, THANK YOU for your brilliant statement of truth. The polygrapher has carte blanche when you sign your release of liablility. Therefore, If the polygrapher simply does not like your response, your demeanor, or the fact that you have failed a poly before SHAZAAM, YOU FAIL BEFORE YOU EVEN GET HOOKED UP TO THE MACHINE simply because they don't like you. Is this integrity? This is why I can't ever believe that a polygraph actually does what it claims because it can't. The test is dependent on the polygraphers DECEPTION by telling the examinee that they need to be honest to pass and the machine and the polygrapher will catch you if you don't tell the truth. You could be an Altar Boy and had an exemplary life and still be branded a LIAR before you even take the test. Fred F.


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PolyBS New User Offline Posts: 3 Joined: Apr 11^th, 2002	Re: failed polygraph - what to do? Reply #11 - Apr 11^th, 2002 at 8:34am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	So in other words, what you're saying is that the polygraph is a subjective "tool" and has no basis in fact or scientific process? Am I right? Then why is your name ProPoly2? Hmmmm.... Quote: It's the polygrapher's fault if you failed and was honest with him. That's where the blame lies my friend. It seems that the polygraphers form an opinion of you during the pre-poly interview, and if he didn't like you for whatever reason, he failed you.


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