Normal Topic Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video (Read 21853 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
May 10th, 2001 at 12:53pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
At the January public meeting of the National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council Study to Review the Scientific Evidence on Polygraphs, Department of Energy Polygraph Program chief David M. Renzelman, having claimed "we don't have the funds and the resources to go out and... and... and banter with the people who don't like polygraph," went on to state:

Quote:
We made a videotape. This videotape is... is untitled other than "Counterintelligence Polygraph Test." I hired what I consider to be one of the, one of the better polygraph examiners from the FBI, and I gave him the title "Inspector General." He's retired FBI, his name is Jack Trimarco, you can meet him, you can chat with him. His only job is to come in whenever he wants to and inspect whatever it is we do. He narrated part of this along with the anchorwoman for channel 7 in Albuquerque, New Mexico. This is a professionally prepared videotape. Took me about a year to get it to the point it is now, and I just sold -- showed it to [name unclear] and she approved it and we're going to send it back and put a trailer on it. I'll give you a copy of that. But it tells people what to expect, Êwhat will happen, what won't happen, when you come to take the polygraph test.

We believe this will allay many fears and misconceptions of people who read the Internet -- and that's all -- before they come in to take the polygraph test.


AntiPolygraph.org has obtained that video under the Freedom of Information Act, and you can now read a transcript of it at:

http://antipolygraph.org/documents/doe-polygraph-video.shtml

Here is how the Department of Energy Office of Counterintelligence addresses what Mr. Renzelman termed the "many fears and misconceptions of people who read the Internet":

Quote:
DIANE ANDERSON: You know Jack, there have been some rumors, some concern, about the reliability of the polygraph.

JACK TRIMARCO: Well, most of the misinformation regarding polygraph is going to be found on the Internet. Everything that you need to know about polygraph testing will be covered with you by our examiners, who are, by the way, the best in the world.

See Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector before deciding whether Jack Trimarco told the truth when he said "Everything that you need to know about polygraph testing will be covered with you by our examiners."

In another exchange, Mr. Trimarco assures Diane Anderson that polygraph "tests" are not interrogations.

Quote:
DIANE ANDERSON: So it's really not an interrogation? Because I think that that would make most people pretty nervous.

JACK TRIMARCO: It's not an interrogation at all....

You may wish to review the DoDPI Interview and Interrogation Handbook (1.6 mb PDF file) and decide for yourself whether a polygraph "test" is "not an interrogation at all."

The video ends with Jack Trimarco telling Diane Anderson (with a straight face):

Quote:
Diane, I want you to remember that no one's questioning your loyalty or your patriotism to the United States. Polygraph is just one means by which the Department of Energy can determine that their faith and confidence in you is well placed.

Hmm. If no one is questioning the loyalty or patriotism of those who are required to submit to counterintelligence-scope polygraph interrogations, then why are they being required to answer questions regarding these very issues? Jack Trimarco's assertion is an exercise in Orwellian doublethink. Those who can think for themselves might contemplate what faith and confidence they can safely place in those who are requiring them to submit to pseudoscientific polygraph "tests" while lying to them about the nature of the procedure.
« Last Edit: May 5th, 2007 at 6:49am by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box G Scalabr
Global Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 358
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #1 - May 10th, 2001 at 9:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Make that two thumbs down...

Quote:
Well, most of the misinformation regarding polygraph is going to be found on the Internet.

LOL...

More like, "Most of what we tell you will be misinformation--starting with the content of this very tape..."

Quote:
You know Jack, there have been some rumors, some concern, about the reliability of the polygraph.

Perhaps this should have been "The DOE scientists are too intelligent to let us slip this by them and have basically called us out.  Therefore, we have made this neat little propaganda video using taxpayer money with the [nearly non-existent] hope that it will allay some of their [very well founded] concerns."

Doug Williams put it very eloquently when he said something to the effect of "I find it amazing that people involved in what is known as the 'lie-detector' industry have so little regard for the truth."
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #2 - Jun 28th, 2001 at 12:17am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Jack Trimarco is the subject of an article by Anna Gorman titled "Getting at the Truth of It" in the Ventura County edition of today's (27 June 2001) Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/editions/ventura/20010627/t000053111.html

The following passage from this article caught my attention in particular:

Quote:


A retired FBI agent, Trimarco spends his days asking questions, watching the lines of the lie detector machine rise and fall. In an unrelenting search for the truth, he cajoles suspects to confess and convinces witnesses to divulge key information.

"You have to go in there with a gladiator mentality," said Trimarco, 53, who lives in Camarillo. "It's a competition, and you have to win."



Compare Trimarco's "gladiator mentality" quip with what he said in the DOE polygraph video:

Quote:


DIANE ANDERSON: So it's really not an interrogation? Because I think that that would make most people pretty nervous.

JACK TRIMARCO: It's not an interrogation at all....



One doesn't need a polygraph to detect a lie.

Wink
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box False +
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 64
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
ridiculous!
Reply #3 - Jun 28th, 2001 at 1:56am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
This tape and the statements made are such an insult. The tape might find a sympathetic listener in general public, but anyone having gone through a federal polygraph knows full well it's a propaganda. 

I hope there will come a time when these individuals will be prosecuted for defrauding the government.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box AMM (Guest)
Guest


Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #4 - Jun 28th, 2001 at 9:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Gentlemen:

Has anyone forwarded a copy of Captain Jones' statement to the LA Times? The staff writer should have done some real research on polygraphs before writing her story.  Specifically, researching the hundreds of honest law enforcement applicants falsely accused of lying.  She wouldn't have to look too far since the LAPD just initiated polygraphs in February.  I'll bet they've falsely branded a hundered or so by now.

I was told I failed, but later informed that I had in fact passed my polygraph. (How can that happen?) Unfortunately, my explanations during my post-test interrogation were spun against me and I was removed from the selection process for not disclosing an incident involving a family member.  The ommission was completely innocent and I fortunately have the chance to appeal my removal.

My appeal is being processed as I write this.  I consider myself lucky in more ways than one.  I initially applied to the FBI while still on active duty and passed "phase one" of the Special Agent Selection Process.  I was excited and ready for the interview, but was told a hiring freeze had just been enacted.  As a back up, I started processing for the LAPD.  I can only imagine the horrible spot I would be in if I had made it to the FBI poly and become one of the many false positives.  Not only would I have been screwed at the federal level, but also at the local, since the FBI shares their poly information.

AMM
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 225
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #5 - Jun 29th, 2001 at 4:04am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AMM,

I hope that you put that information into your letter to Phyllis the Personnel Chief. That is totally uncalled for and you should be reinstated.  The post-test interview should not be grounds for dismissal. 


How are you doing with contacting the local print media? any good contacts made

Keep up the fight

Fred F.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6230
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #6 - Jun 29th, 2001 at 9:00am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Fred,

You wrote:

Quote:
The post-test interview should not be grounds for dismissal.


Obtaining damaging admissions is the whole point of the polygraph interrogation. If agencies that rely on polygraphy really believed that truth vs. deception could be divined from polygraph charts, then there would be no need for post-test interrogations (polygraphers prefer to call them "interviews" when speaking to non-polygraphers). Those who whose charts are read as deceptive would be simply be shown to the door.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box AMM (Guest)
Guest


Re: Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video
Reply #7 - Jun 29th, 2001 at 8:55pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Gentlemen:

Yes, George is right. The whole purpose is to produce admissions or information to disqualify you with.  I realized that way too late however.  The good thing is that the information I gave them contains nothing detrimental to me.  It was just something I innocently forgot.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

As for print media, I'm laying low while my appeal is processed. I did however send Senator Alarcon a letter asking for him to initiate new legislation banning pre-employment polygraphs in CA.

AMM
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Thumbs Down for DOE Polygraph Video

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X