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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50% (Read 87875 times)
George W. Maschke
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FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
May 23rd, 2002 at 9:05am
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In an article titled, "FBI seeks to rebuild its image," Chris Mondics of the Philadelphia Inquirer Washington bureau reports that Roger L. Trott, chief of the FBI's agent training unit, asserts that nearly half of FBI agent applicants who pass preliminary tests don't pass the polygraph:
Quote:
...The bureau expects to hire only about 5 percent of the 20,000-plus people who have submitted applications since the beginning of the year.

Applicants are tested on analytical math and communications skills. Trott says that nearly half the applicants who survive the written tests and the interviews typically don't pass the polygraph on past drug use, potential security risks, and other issues.


If Trott is right, then the percentage of FBI applicants who fail to pass the polygraph is up sharply from an earlier figure of about 20%. Perhaps, with the surge in applications following the events of 11 September 2001, the FBI has decided that it can afford to arbitrarily disqualify more applicants based on polygraph chart readings.

Note: The above-linked article is no longer available on Philly.com. A PDF printout is attached.
« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2013 at 5:06am by George W. Maschke »  

FBI_seeks_to_rebuild_its_image.pdf ( 61 KB | 226 Downloads )

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George W. Maschke
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Now Over 50%!
Reply #1 - Dec 27th, 2002 at 4:35am
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The FBI polygraph failure rate is now above 50%, according to Joe Bross, who is in charge of recruiting at FBI HQ. Mr. Bross is quoted in a 23 December 2002 Washington Times article by Ann Geracimos titled, "A special kind of education":

Quote:
"Some think they can get over on the polygraph because it isn't an exact science," says Joe Bross, acting chief of the applicant process section. "We knock out more than one of every two [with the polygraph]."


According to the FBI website, Joe Bross, who is also the commander of American Legion Post 56, may be contacted by e-mail to jbross@fbi.gov or by phone at (202) 278-2436.
  

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George W. Maschke
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But only 20% of linguist applicants fail!
Reply #2 - Dec 27th, 2002 at 11:13am
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Are applicants for special agent hire less honest than those who apply as linguists? That seems to be what the FBI's polygraphers believe, since "only" 20% of linguist applicants are failing the polygraph, compared with over 50% of special agent applicants!

In today's (27 Dec. 2002) Washington Post, Susan Schmidt and Allan Lengel report in an article titled, "Help Still Wanted: Arabic Linguists":

Quote:
"It takes 10 people in the front door to get one person out the other end," said Margaret Gulotta, head of language services for the FBI.

Gulotta said that 65 percent of applicants fail the bureau's language test; 20 percent can't pass a required polygraph and and 10 percent are eliminated for security reasons. All told, she said, the FBI has hired 286 translators and linguists since Sept. 11, 2001, in all languages, for both full-time and contract positions.
« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2002 at 11:39am by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #3 - Dec 28th, 2002 at 4:57am
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George,  Grow up and stop the  Cry  So you can't be a junior G-Man. 8)  
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #4 - Dec 28th, 2002 at 4:14pm
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George,  Grow up and stop the    So you can't be a junior G-Man.  


Is this the most substantive thing that you can contribute to this discussion?
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #5 - Dec 30th, 2002 at 12:51am
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Wink, Gino, why I am just responding like all 95% of all posters to this web site do....  Whine, cry , and telling everyone how they were wronged by the world; and then try to make it sound important. 

Gee I wish I could have everything I want. Gee I wish the big bad government would give me more handouts.  I think I'm good, therefore, I should be given all that I wish for.  Roll Eyes   When they finally pull their heads out of their @#$s  Shocked and realize that there is more to life than whimpering about how life is not fair these folks may actualy get a life!

I really don't care about polygraph one way or the other, I stumbled on to this site and have been increasingly PO'd at the ME, ME, ME attitude of the posters.  Imagine what good could be done if the wasted energy put into this site were pointed towards Real problems in the world.

Till next time.  Cheesy
  
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Skeptic
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #6 - Dec 30th, 2002 at 1:01am
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Wink, Gino, why I am just responding like all 95% of all posters to this web site do....  Whine, cry , and telling everyone how they were wronged by the world; and then try to make it sound important.  

Gee I wish I could have everything I want. Gee I wish the big bad government would give me more handouts.  I think I'm good, therefore, I should be given all that I wish for.  Roll Eyes   When they finally pull their heads out of their @#$s  Shocked and realize that there is more to life than whimpering about how life is not fair these folks may actualy get a life!

I really don't care about polygraph one way or the other, I stumbled on to this site and have been increasingly PO'd at the ME, ME, ME attitude of the posters.  Imagine what good could be done if the wasted energy put into this site were pointed towards Real problems in the world.

Till next time.  Cheesy  


So you know nothing about this issue or the people who contribute here.

Ah, well, at least you admit it.

Skeptic
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #7 - Dec 30th, 2002 at 1:23am
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Skeptic (or maybe I should say George),

Who said I don't know anything about the issue or the people who contribute?  Not I.  I said, "I really don't care about polygraph one way or the other".

The point of my post was to state the obvious, The majority of posters to this site feel that the world owes them.  Alas , you dear Skeptic will take this and twist it to match that underlying theme:  ME, Me, Me!!!

  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #8 - Dec 30th, 2002 at 5:23am
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Skeptic (or maybe I should say George),


Only if you want to depict yourself as an even more obvious fool than you already have.

Quote:
Who said I don't know anything about the issue or the people who contribute?  Not I.  I said, "I really don't care about polygraph one way or the other".


That's funny...most people who don't care about an issue don't bother to learn about it.  Perhaps you are a polygrapher?  That would explain the hostility and lack of empathy for people impacted by the device.

Quote:
The point of my post was to state the obvious, The majority of posters to this site feel that the world owes them.


I'm sorry you don't feel those who are wronged should attempt to do something about it.  For the record, many people here (such as myself) have nothing personal to gain by eliminating the polygraph.  But that little detail won't get in the way of you posting your simplistic drivel, will it?

Yeah, you've bothered to spend a lot of time here.

Quote:
Alas , you dear Skeptic will take this and twist it to match that underlying theme:  ME, Me, Me!!!


Oh, no.  Much more fun to talk about you and your obviously clueless posts.

Skeptic
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #9 - Dec 30th, 2002 at 2:52pm
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Gino, why I am just responding like all 95% of all posters to this web site do....  Whine, cry , and telling everyone how they were wronged by the world; and then try to make it sound important.  

I do not remember George Maschke, the person you assailed in your message, ever making such a post.
Quote:
I really don't care about polygraph one way or the other, I stumbled on to this site and have been increasingly PO'd at the ME, ME, ME attitude of the posters.

Your reference to the art of polygraphy via the awkward use of the word "polygraph" in the abstract suggests otherwise.
Quote:
Imagine what good could be done if the wasted energy put into this site were pointed towards Real problems in the world.

There are some of us who feel that the use of a façade—namely polygraphy-- as the cornerstone of our nation's counter-intelligence policy is a real-world problem. National security is too important to be left to an unreliable procedure that falsely accuses many individuals while liars cognizant of the trickery behind the “test” manage to easily avert suspicion.

« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2002 at 4:38pm by G Scalabr »  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #10 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 12:39am
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Damn Gino, you must be an attorney.  You have that legal ease double-talk all worked out.  I never "assailed" George.  I do belive George did tell the world he was wronged; check out Capt Smith's harangue

http://antipolygraph.org/statements/statement-003.shtml
     
      Correct me if I'm wrong, that is George isn't it? (Don't lie)

As to my referencing to the "art of polygraphy" via the awkard use of the word "polygraph".... I say tomato, you say tomoto.  You understood what I was saying; I say again, you must be an attorney.

Skeptic, Clueless posts?  No more than you are.  I have a clue and I do feel empathy for those impacted by the device; however, life does go on.  You stated that you have nothing personal to gain by eliminating the polygraph, same here.  But that little detail won't get in the way of you, as well, posting your pompous, arrogant, simplistic foolishness either.  Wink
  
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Skeptic
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #11 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 1:26am
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Skeptic, Clueless posts?  No more than you are.


I suppose I can play that game, too.  "I know you are, but what am I?"

Of course, the difference is that your posts truly are clueless.

Quote:
I have a clue and I do feel empathy for those impacted by the device; however, life does go on.


Empathy, huh?  Let us revisit your deeply-empathic, near-magical insight into "those impacted by the device":

"George,  Grow up and stop the [crying] So you can't be a junior G-Man."

"Gino, why I am just responding like all 95% of all posters to this web site do....  Whine, cry , and telling everyone how they were wronged by the world; and then try to make it sound important."

"The point of my post was to state the obvious, The majority of posters to this site feel that the world owes them."

I think the casual reader is quite capable of judging your level of "empathy" without any help from us Smiley

Again, I urge readers to consider what undergoing a subjective polygraph session with a judgemental individual such as "Fed-up!" as polygraph administrator would entail.  There would be no appeal, no redress if he or she decided he or she didn't like you and should fail.

Polygraph screening should be abolished, period.
Skeptic
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2002 at 2:15am by Skeptic »  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #12 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 2:39am
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I suppose I can play that game, too.  "I know you are, but what am I?"

Of course, the difference is that your posts truly are clueless.


OK Pee Wee  Cheesy  We must agree to disagree!  Are you sure its not Septic rather than Skeptic?

Quote:
I think the casual reader is quite capable of judging your level of "empathy" without any help from us


The casual reader of this sight?  The casual readers to this sight have a life, a job, and a realist outlook on life and do/will know that I truly am empathic to those who are deserving.  Those who find it necessary to call the world a bully and believe that we all have the right to have everything we wish for will not. 

We do not have the right to "have" everything we wish for, but we do have the chance to try and fail or succeed.  If polygraphy (for you Gino  Grin ) is so evil, how/why do people pass tests every day and move on with life? (Please don't give me the "They all used Counter Measures" line.)

Lets see, 25 job positions open up at a PD or Fed Agenecy and 1000 people apply for the job.  Gee if I follow the logic on this sight, all 1000 should get the job.  I guess that means 40 people will each share one of the 25 positions because it would not be right to disqualify 975 of the applicants. (Yeah, right)

As I have eluded to in my past postings, life is not fair, it is just life.  False Positives are not fair, true, but neither is life. 

Courts make mistakes and innocent folks go to jail, some times for life.  I guess we should abolish the Court system in the US as well!
(just using the logic that is taught here)

I most eagerly await the next onslaught of verbal judo from the kind and empathic (or is it pathetic) crew here in George and Gino's Wonderland.   Smiley
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #13 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 5:38am
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OK Pee Wee  Cheesy  We must agree to disagree!  Are you sure its not Septic rather than Skeptic?


Would you believe you're the first one to come up with that?

Quote:
The casual reader of this sight?  The casual readers to this sight have a life, a job, and a realist outlook on life and do/will know that I truly am empathic to those who are deserving.  Those who find it necessary to call the world a bully and believe that we all have the right to have everything we wish for will not.


Perhaps in "Fed-up"'s existential world, people who are injured due to known defective products are also "whiners" when they go after the manufacturer, as are those who are denied employment because of blatant racial discrimination, etc.  Fortunately, most of us don't live there.  It's not a pleasant place.

Quote:
We do not have the right to "have" everything we wish for, but we do have the chance to try and fail or succeed.  If polygraphy (for you Gino  Grin ) is so evil, how/why do people pass tests every day and move on with life? (Please don't give me the "They all used Counter Measures" line.)


It's always easier to address arguments that have never been made, isn't it?

Quote:
Lets see, 25 job positions open up at a PD or Fed Agenecy and 1000 people apply for the job.  Gee if I follow the logic on this sight, all 1000 should get the job.  I guess that means 40 people will each share one of the 25 positions because it would not be right to disqualify 975 of the applicants. (Yeah, right)


Unfortunately, you are not following the logic on this site.

Quote:
Courts make mistakes and innocent folks go to jail, some times for life.  I guess we should abolish the Court system in the US as well!
(just using the logic that is taught here)


No one here has ever said the polygraph should be abolished solely because it isn't perfect.  That's your straw man; you burn it.

(It would be wonderful if most people would bother to read this site before commenting on its contents.  Sadly, as seems the case here, many come with an axe to grind, with little interest in addressing the material at hand.)

Quote:
I most eagerly await the next onslaught of verbal judo from the kind and empathic (or is it pathetic) crew here in George and Gino's Wonderland.   Smiley


Fed-up, you're not even a speed bump.  OTOH, it sure seems like this site is oddly important to you -- especially since you don't care either way about the polygraph.

Skeptic
  
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Re: FBI Polygraph Failure Rate Reportedly Near 50%
Reply #14 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 6:42am
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Skeptic,
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[OK Pee Wee    We must agree to disagree!  Are you sure its not Septic rather than Skeptic?

Would you believe you're the first one to come up with that?


Do you believe in Santa Clause? The latter does seem to fit your Web personality.  I believe BatMan christened you "septic"
Correct me if I error...I'm sure you will


Quote:
Perhaps in "Fed-up"'s existential world, people who are injured due to known defective products are also "whiners" when they go after the manufacturer, as are those who are denied employment because of blatant racial discrimination, etc.  Fortunately, most of us don't live there.  It's not a pleasant place.

Now you are speaking apples and oranges.  Physical injury due to defective products and blatant racial discrimination do not compare.  But then you have a tendency to look at the world through your own particular brand of rose colored glasses; as do we all.

Quote:
We do not have the right to "have" everything we wish for, but we do have the chance to try and fail or succeed.  If polygraphy (for you Gino   ) is so evil, how/why do people pass tests every day and move on with life? (Please don't give me the "They all used Counter Measures" line.)

It's always easier to address arguments that have never been made, isn't it?


Or in your case it is easier to ignore the question.  I readily admit that False positives exist.  They exist in all factes of life in one manner or another.... Deal with them and move on.  Now answer my question:  How do you explain that so many "pass" the test while others fail?

Quote:
Lets see, 25 job positions open up at a PD or Fed Agency and 1000 people apply for the job.  Gee if I follow the logic on this sight, all 1000 should get the job.  I guess that means 40 people will each share one of the 25 positions because it would not be right to disqualify 975 of the applicants. (Yeah, right)


Unfortunately, you are not following the logic on this site.


But I am, Skeptic, sadly I am.  You just see the tree, not the entire forest.

Quote:
Courts make mistakes and innocent folks go to jail, some times for life.  I guess we should abolish the Court system in the US as well! (just using the logic that is taught here)

No one here has ever said the polygraph should be abolished solely because it isn't perfect.  That's your straw man; you burn it.

(It would be wonderful if most people would bother to read this site before commenting on its contents.  Sadly, as seems the case here, many come with an axe to grind, with little interest in addressing the material at hand.)

I have no axe to grind, and I have read the site prior to commenting.  I believe I am addressing the material at hand when I say the majority of posters to this site are A. Crying in their beer over opportunity lost.  B.  Looking for a way to game the system.
Quote:
Fed-up, you're not even a speed bump.  OTOH, it sure seems like this site is oddly important to you -- especially since you don't care either way about the polygraph.

Now, now don't go making assumptions.  You flatter your self.  This site is not oddly important to me.  I find it an ammusing way to spend my free time during the Holiday slump in business.  When I become bored with the mindless drivel I'll just look else ware for another type of diversion.  Now take this post and twist as you do so well.
  
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