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Topic Summary - Displaying 16 post(s).
Posted by: Frank
Posted on: May 4th, 2020 at 7:17pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Does the tongue biting as a counter measure only need to be used during the diagnostic lie questions or also the diagnostic truth questions?
Posted by: 1904 - Ex Member
Posted on: Jun 21st, 2007 at 3:16pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
In TLBTLD, we suggest biting down on the side of the tongue hard enough to cause pain but not physical harm because we believe this is easiest to accomplish covertly. If you can bite the tip of your tongue un-noticeably, that should also work.



Hi George,

I was paging through an old APA journal a few days back - looking for something specific - when my eye caught a para on CMS. Back in 2003 Honts reported that tongue biting affected the validity of the exam
by 60%. He also reported that placing a tack under the tongue produced significantly better CM results.

So, there you go. Take the tack out of the shoe and pop it under the tongue.

Regds - 1904

PS:   Doug Williams has invited you to his upcoming wedding. He's marrying his sister.
PPS: Palerider is on sabbatical. Teaching Islam to Muslims.
Posted by: hellcat
Posted on: May 20th, 2007 at 7:45am
  Mark & Quote
I did use countermeasures (breathing and mental arithmetic) against a test which would have a very serious outcome. They WORKED. I passed.

what about the tightening the anal sphincter?? If there is no pad on the chair is it a good method? How would I incorporate it into my countermeasures? The same way as the toungue biting during the control questions?? How much tightening is required? "moderate" or maximum? change my breathing also? or just mental aritmetic concurrently? 

I am going to be taking another polygraph soon for a new prospective employer. If I can truthfully answer "NO" to the relevant questions, do I trust that I will pass or do I attempt the countermeasures anyway? Not an easy question to answer. I can't believe I have to go through this horse-shit again. 

as a side bar, I took one polygraph where they used the pad on the seat but I employed no countermeasures and "failed" the test-or at least inconclusive.  The next time around (different employer)  I used "Breathing" countermeasures and passed. In that case they had no pad on the seat and I wondered if should have used the sphincter method instead--since I passed it doesn't really matter....I did use the "blocking" breathing method on the control questions when I passed. Could a more experienced examiner find me out even if I employ the blocking method properly? Are the other breathing countermeasures harder to detect?  It seems to me the blocking is the easiest to do but I would try to use a different breathing method if it was less "detect-able".  And finally, if there is no pad on the seat would you reccomend using the sphincter method?


Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: May 17th, 2007 at 1:54pm
  Mark & Quote
palerider wrote on May 17th, 2007 at 12:22pm:
George, have you ever used countermeasures against a test which had very serious consequences?----I doubt it. I am not with "bluster" as much as incredule.


I have never employed polygraph countermeasures. The information on countermeasures provided in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is based not on personal experience, but rather on research of the relevant literature, with references that skeptical readers may (and are encouraged to) check for themselves.

Quote:
Biting your tongue on polygraph questions results in overly dramatic "pen jack" and again, a polygraph examiner does not need an admission of countermeasures to know better----we are a wickedly suspisious lot. As I said to Sergeant, when my 3 year old smells like poop, I don't need him to admit having done so.


No tell-tale "pen jack" associated with tongue-biting has been described in the polygraph literature. On the contrary, as I mentioned earlier, the relevant peer-reviewed research suggests that even experienced polygraph examiners are unable to detect tongue biting employed as a countermeasure.
Posted by: palerider
Posted on: May 17th, 2007 at 12:22pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George, have you ever used countermeasures against a test which had very serious consequences?----I doubt it. I am not with "bluster" as much as incredule.

Biting your tongue on polygraph questions results in overly dramatic "pen jack" and again, a polygraph examiner does not need an admission of countermeasures to know better----we are a wickedly suspisious lot. As I said to Sergeant, when my 3 year old smells like poop, I don't need him to admit having done so. What does your domestic partner think of your preoccupation with computer blogging all day and all nght?
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: May 16th, 2007 at 5:03am
  Mark & Quote
palerider wrote on May 16th, 2007 at 4:42am:
My god, what horrible advice. Tongue biting is a surefire way of being detected. Your response on the charts will be so late and obvious-----who the hell makes this stuff up? You want a countermeasure? Stage a phony car accident and don't show for the test. You're sunk if you try this stuff. You should tell the examiner that you know how the test works and tell him that you intend on passing the test without looking silly. This is a spectacular website with top shelf graphics and all. As an examiner, I gotta tell you---if this monkey business worked, there would be no polygraph testing anymore. What a beautiful web design though.


Despite your bluster, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect tongue-biting (or any of the other countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector) as a polygraph countermeasure. In peer-reviewed studies by Charles Honts and others (see citations in the bibliography of TLBTLD), even experienced polygraph examiners who were forewarned that tongue-biting would be used as a countermeasure were unable to detect it.
Posted by: palerider
Posted on: May 16th, 2007 at 4:42am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
My god, what horrible advice. Tongue biting is a surefire way of being detected. Your response on the charts will be so late and obvious-----who the hell makes this stuff up? You want a countermeasure? Stage a phony car accident and don't show for the test. You're sunk if you try this stuff. You should tell the examiner that you know how the test works and tell him that you intend on passing the test without looking silly. This is a spectacular website with top shelf graphics and all. As an examiner, I gotta tell you---if this monkey business worked, there would be no polygraph testing anymore. What a beautiful web design though.
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: May 1st, 2007 at 10:09am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
yabba97 wrote on May 1st, 2007 at 10:00am:
how would you make it timely with the control questions? Would tongue biting not be detected when you speak?


Have you not read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector? The answer to your question is provided at p. 149 of the current (4th) edition.
Posted by: yabba97
Posted on: May 1st, 2007 at 10:00am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
how would you make it timely with the control questions? Would tongue biting not be detected when you speak?
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: May 1st, 2007 at 5:04am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
yabba97 wrote on Apr 30th, 2007 at 9:42pm:
could one pass a polygrpah by just simply biting their tongue?


Yes, provided it is done timely with the "control" questions.
Posted by: yabba97
Posted on: Apr 30th, 2007 at 9:42pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
could one pass a polygrpah by just simply biting their tongue?
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Nov 13th, 2005 at 1:02pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
A tack in the shoe, or even merely pressing one's toes to the floor while answering the "control" questions, can produce significant reactions measurable by the polygraph. But because some polygraph instruments are equipped with a strain gauge or sensor pad that might alert the polygrapher to such activity, the use of such countermeasures is not recommended.
Posted by: gelb disliker
Posted on: Nov 13th, 2005 at 7:33am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George,

   can a pebble or a tack inside your shoe work too?  will this bring about any kind of response?
Posted by: nopolyman
Posted on: Jul 19th, 2005 at 6:25am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Great, thank you Mr. Maschke.
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Jul 19th, 2005 at 4:01am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
In TLBTLD, we suggest biting down on the side of the tongue hard enough to cause pain but not physical harm because we believe this is easiest to accomplish covertly. If you can bite the tip of your tongue un-noticeably, that should also work.
Posted by: nopolyman
Posted on: Jul 19th, 2005 at 2:45am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
My last post didn't gain a response. Perhaps this one will (I have my test coming VERY soon and I'm nervous). This probably sounds like a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway. Someone please help me!!

I'm going to employ the tongue biting countermeasure. TLBTLD says to bite down on the side of your tongue. Will it work just as well to bite down on the tip of your tongue? I cannot bite down on the side without it being noticeable but have found that I can bite down on the tip and it not be noticeable at all. I can still garner a fair amount of pain doing it that way. Is this a good way to go? Someone please help me. Thank you.
 
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