did i miss something?

"THEY WILL NOT poly exam a pregnant woman as "it can be stressful", as they put it and if it would even remotely stressfully affect the pregnant subject, as they know it would, then THEY would be held liable if any complication occurred."

just so you know. i am 30 and 27 weeks pregnant and i have 10 years probation and i have had to take a poly 4 times in the last year... in Arizona they absolutely WILL polygraph you pregnant. they dont care. oh and i keep failing telling the truth. ironically the only time i passed was when i made up something to "admit" to them and they were satisfied.

Ex Member wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 4:35am:



I am honestly getting to a point, where I believe that PCSOT testing in Texas should be suspended until it is properly and fully licensed and regulated by the TDLR, and under the total control of the TDLR.

With the past behaviors of the Texas polygraph establishment, it has become clear that that all licensing and regulation powers should be taken out of the hands of any entity that is not TDLR.  

Ok, lets get addressing the rest of this crap out of the way.  

The more I look at this and reflect on it, the more I recognize what it is I think they are trying to achieve.  Up until now, my fight has been one of the truth, and documentation.  Despite predictions on PP that I was going to, "snap," or have a, "falling down moment," I have always strayed away from violence and acting out in any physical manner.  I know this disappointed many, and others were impressed that I didn't.  

Now having said this, every time a stunt like this is pulled, I firmly believe that I’m being trolled into violence; and that is their end game.  I think this is a reasonable conclusion, based on the postings from PP, and that the postings from these anonymous posters, seem to be increasingly taunting and trollish.  

The reason their attacks get worse and worse, is because they want to keep pushing buttons, until they achieve the desired result.  Personally, I think this is both a dangerous and a stupid game.  

It's stupid because, if I haven't done it yet, clearly, I'm not going to.  All they are doing is showing what a bunch of moronic jackasses they are; and they are showing their desperation. 

It's a dangerous tactic, because it's all fun and games, until the bullied finally does give the desired response.  When the bully achieves the desired response, it never ends well for anyone. You never know what a person in that state of mind will do, or how they will target.  You see this all the time on TV for those people who do snap.  It never ends well, and usually, it's the most innocent who get hurt the most.  This just shows how irresponsible these people are.  

In any case, it has become clear to me that a violent end to this feud is their end game.  I have spoken with others, and they agree with my assessment of this situation.  Well, the violent end they seek will only materialize, if or when, they are dumb enough to bring it themselves.  I haven't and I will not lower myself to a level they expect of me.  

So I really wish they would move on from this tactic.  It hasn't worked up to now, clearly it won't work.  MOVE ON!

It’s become clear, that they are examiners who are very desperate.  I have my theories, but that is for another post.  

I will say this.  

Over the years of my wife watching my struggle up close and personal, she has become very anti polygraph, and anti polygraph industry.  I have asked her to keep her opinions in the home, because this is how I make a living.  Crap like this makes it very hard for me to ask her to remain respectful to how I make a living, and not do anyting that would put the industry in a bad place.  

Now that someone has been stupid enough to involve her, in a very personal way, I cannot, in good faith, ask her to tolerate personal attacks and not retaliate.  It is important to note, she has been though polygraph school and is very aware of what she calls, flawed studies.  In short, she is not someone in which you people want to start a personal war.  I would be on the phone with her very quickly with assurances, that the personal attacks on her, at least will be addressed, and dealt with accordingly; Just a suggestion.  Trust me, you people don't want her involved on a personal level.  She will make, Von Behren, and Dansby, look like a morning without coffee.  

I am done asking her to leave it alone.  If I were certain examiner in the industry, I would talk her down before GM gets smart and gets her on the phone.  Because Karen can do way more damage than Dan or me put together.  I’m done talking her down, and I am done defending this industry to her.  

Good luck

Got home from Vegas yesterday, and just getting to this again now.  Looking at it with fresh eyes is till pissing me off royally.  As such, I really just want to take a couple more days to cool off.

There are so many things wrong about all this; factually and morally.  I will say this though.

The elections were fair, square, and on the level.  I know the guys who were counting the votes, and any implication that these men would do anything, other than what is right or honorable, is completely offensive of my sensibilities.  Both are good men, and men of unquestionable character in my eyes.  I will have no talk about the examiners in question, being anything but good men.  

All the candidates involved were, well qualified, and well recommended.  I lost the elections to good men, who want to serve the membership of the organization, with honor and pride.  I will have words with anyone who says otherwise.  

In an election, someone wins and someone loses, this is the nature of an election.  No matter who won, they didn't win.  No candidate ever wins an election; they win a burden.  It's a burden of service they choose to take on.  The Voters win an election, especially this year.  I say that, because there was not a single bad candidate in my eyes.

The rest of this I will address later, when I have a cooler head.

Joe McCarthy wrote on Jan 19^th, 2017 at 9:56am:


From Wikipedia:

"In criminal and civil law, assault is an attempt to initiate harmful or offensive contact with a person, or a threat to do so. It is distinct from battery, which refers to the actual achievement of such contact."

Too far, too far.  I think I will take a few days before I address this.  

Quote:



666
14-88
33/5
88

Dan Mangan wrote on Dec 12^th, 2016 at 8:18pm:

That's minga or mangia?    lol

Ex Member wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 4:35am:


It appears that such is the case.

This is the personality type that is administering PCSOT exams in Texas?

Congratulations, Joey

You've become the new Dan Mangan

Learn from Dan

You'll never win any election 

Not in any polygraph association 

Unlike Dan, you don't learn the first time, do you?

Joey, was a two time loser today everyone

He ran against a sitting Board Member

and got humiliated when he didn't get a single vote

Not one

Then he runs for the second spot

Thank God someone stood up to prevent you from running unopposed 

Just to rub salt in the wound, Joey

That's why he ran at the last moment

He didn't really want the spot

Everyone just didn't want you to have the spot

And again, not one vote was for you

No one will let you tinker with things from within

Even if you won

You would've lost

Every vote would've been for anyone else but you

Is it true you cried?  I heard you cried.

Irishmen are good at that

That's why you wear dresses

The NPA doesn't want your kind, Joey

The polygraph industry, doesn't want your kind

In Texas we don't want your kind

You'll never find the acceptance you seek 

Like a desperate little puppy dog

That's why you belong to an all black lodge

Because there's no normal regular lodge that would ever take you

Three ex wives didn't want you

Your current wife doesn't want you

Where is she, Joey?

Who's car is in your driveway, Joey?

We know

Do you?

Ask her

If you trust your test so much, test her

Tell everyone how it goes, Joey

Have fun crying while you walk down The Strip, Joey

Financially and emotionally broke

Did you bring one of your guns, Joey?

You know what to do with it

The MGM is used to cleaning up insignificant, odd ball, losers 

It'll be the only thing you did in life that would make people happy.

You've already been replaced at home, Joey

Just make it easy on her 

And everyone else

Make it easy on yourself

Stop the suffering

No one will ever love you

Quote:


Ugh, Seriously?

How do I get in contact with you directly?  You'll want to look at what I have for you. 

133
7/7
12

Joe McCarthy wrote on Dec 12^th, 2016 at 6:05pm:



Minga!

Dan Mangan wrote on Dec 12^th, 2016 at 2:17am:



Wow, who is paying you to coax me into a hostile debate?  

All this hostility all the sudden, it's an interesting turn for you and me.  What is the positive outcome you hope to derive from the ad hominem, personal attacks on someone equally wanting to stop the, "polygraph victimization?"  I doubt I will get an articulate answer to that question, but what the hell, thought I'd toss it out there.

You say I have OCD.  Can you tell me how one with no psychological training or license to practice would come to such a diagnosis, and what protocols you used?  It seems like a pretty extreme diagnosis, especially when I have a track record of being silent when not being pushed.  

Me coming here is a simple example of cause and effect.  Simply put, between 2009 and 2014, I was as silent as can be.  Sure they were playing their games; but they had to go and mess with my license in 2014. If you kick a sleeping dog, the dog will bite.  Cause and effect.  Since then, there have been periods of silence which lasted as long as TAPE and Maria left me to my own devices.

Sorry the data simply doesn't support your theory.  I suspect you may be using the same methodology you used in your 100% accuracy study.  

It's strange really, my fact based fight with TAPE and specific Texas examiners, has done more to actually prove, empirically, that polygraph abuse does in fact exist than you ever could.  All you have is your interpretation of their studies, other peoples unconfirmed stories, and perceived slights from an organization that welcomes you to bring your issues to the floor anytime you want to show up to the dance (so to speak).

You are still welcome in the community for which you criticize.  If you think about it, that is interesting.  Two conclusions one can draw from this make for interesting conversation.   

Is it possible, that they have no fear of you?  They are not at all concerned by your claims because, where there are a few which do have some validity, most are just blown out of proportion, perceived slights and theory.  You have little empirical, documented proof, of some of your accusations; as such, your impotence is simply as much a threat as that of a bag of declawed kittens. Sorry man, but it's been my experience, that when you are a treat, people do everything in the world to eliminate that threat.  

You have said things about the industry that is 100 times worse than anything I have said, with a fraction of the proof.  Yet you are left untouched in regard to disciplinary actions at the association level. Hmmmmmm this is interesting.  Here is Maria Hubbard, Andy Sheppard, and all the rest of the round up gang, and they claim that they want to protect the industry.  Yet, I have never said that the industry should be dismantled or outlawed.  I have never said that polygraph was so inaccurate that it was no better than religion.  I have only said that certain individuals are of, questionable integrity and character, and this should be a problem for us.  I don't want to take out the industry, just those individuals.  Even then, I have shown a willingness to live and let live.  

So how, I wonder, how do you not get touched? Whereas me, someone who has all but screamed my support for the accuracy of polygraph from the roof tops and backed it up with action, gets the book thrown at me at almost every turn?  One would think given your stated motives, you'd be the target in need of silencing. Someone like be can be reasoned with and used to the industries benefit.  

Here is the other theory, and this one is a stretch, but if you think about it, and all you AP people should think on this, why is it, that he has been anti polygraph, but nothing happens to him; I am pro polygraph, and I am to be destroyed.  Sorry, but the past actions prove this to be true.

Anyway.  Could it be, that Dan is a troll?  We all know that polygraph examiners come here to troll; this is obvious from the PP posts.  How is it that Dan says the things he does, and walks away clean?  I mean, come on, look what happened to me for telling the truth.  How is it he crawls out of the gutter holding two gold watches?  

Where I come from, the dirtiest guy that never has the attention of the authorities, either has people in his pocket, or is a RAT.  I do hope you're not a snitch, Dan.  That would be bad; but it would explain the sudden hostility.

It's kinda like my theory, that if the Texas examiners, therapists, and CSCD's, were to suddenly embrace me and sing my praises; it would destroy me by taking away any credibility I ever had about being independent and unbiased.  That is one thing Whitey would do, if he had control of things like they do down here, he would have someone embraced by group A, to make group B become suspicious and suspect of the person group A is now embracing; then let group B handle it.  He walks away with clean hands, and the usurper is handled though what one could call, "natural selection."  

But Again, he was very Machiavellian.  Of course he did have other methods, but you never go to the extreme too fast.  It's too high profile, and bad for business.

Now, there are other possibilities, these are just the two big ones.  

As far as you saying I am, "self entitled," let's explore that.

All I wanted from the start is exactly what EVERY American is entitled to under the law; a fair shot, in a free market economy.  I put my product out there and, if people CHOOSE to use my services, and finds my services to be overall superior to that of my competition, they become return customers or tell their friends.  Then people hear about me and try me, like my services, return, and tell others.  I have been dined this chance in the past, and am still being denied in markets, or as my intern instructor called them, fiefdoms, which are still closed off or closely controlled to all outside competition.  

Sorry man, numbers don't lie.  Richard Wood and Associates, 45% inconclusive rate (almost half the time, he couldn't tell if someone was DI or NDI). How that is an acceptable product to anyone is baffling to me.  People were treated like numbers and dollar signs, and had a low confession rate(from what I heard and based on experience).  

Me, under 5% inconclusive.  People were treated as people, and I never collected money before a test.  I had and still have a very respectable confession rate.  In the PCSOT market, most of my disclosures are pretest.  

Put my product up against theirs, in a free market, they would be out of business in 2 years unless they made significant changes.  

So this idea that I feel self entitled, I don't know where people get that from.  I have been consistent in my statements, I just want a chance to compete, and the market will decide.  I have fought hard to continue to be here. I am still here, long after people thought I'd be gone.  They have tried, trust me, but I am still here, because my overall product is that good; it's the only reason I am still here.  

I paid more than my fair share of dues, moreso than any of my competition had to pay.  Anyone else wouldn't be here still.

So yea, there is no data to back up your, "self entitled" claim.

You also seem to have this fascination to compare this to an, organized crime family, in the obvious sense of the term.  Again, you need to cut back on the movies guy..

"two in the hat"

HUH

Where did you get that from, a Mickey Spillane, novel?  
"Yea..... yea.... see, I'll rub ya out with this Chaciago Typewriter right here now... see..... that'll teach ya coppa.... see"

Wow Dan, seriously, that was embarrassing for everyone.  

I mean come on man.  What would a lace curtain Irish boy like you know what went on in Southie, or in The Town?  Why don't you start tossing around vernacular about Winter Hill while you're at it.  

You probably don't even know the line of the T that brings you to these places or the names of the stops to get there, without you looking it up.

Oh and BTW, the word, "capiche," wrong ethnic group.  Go ahead, use that word in an old school southie pup.  Let me know where and wen you plan to do that, because, 1, that will be entertaining as hell; and 2, you will need me to make sure you end up next to the dumpster, rather than in it.  

LMAO, wow, "capiche."  I am laughing so hard I can't breathe.  Lay of the movies and cough syrup man, I'm worried about ya.  

Fact is, if this industry was run like that, this would be simple, and I could understand it.  There would have been no court case, and frankly, the meter would have been settled in a manner which would have been either fair or final.  It is my understanding, that is not how legitimate businesses or the legitimate business world works.  

Now, if I am mistaken and this is what you seem to think it is, not that you even know what, is, is, then I wish someone would enlighten me.  That would change the rules significantly.  

As far as what would Jimmy do, I have answered that question, but somehow the lines of communication have broken down.  Clean the gunk from your eyes.  

One last thing, it's a bad idea to allude to things that could give people the wrong impression you know something about things you don't really know.  It can give people the wrong idea.  

"Capiche,"........ wow........ LMAO. Lace curtain Irish boy trying to act all North End.  That is just too funny.  Next thing ya know you'll be running down the street when you hear some woman yell "ANTHONY" out her window.  

LMAO



Too funny   

Joe, my comments about the polygraph "indu$try" are geared toward the macro view of things.

You, on the other hand, are hopelessly mired in your storied obsessive-compulsive disorder with TAPE.

Things ain't gonna change, Joe, and neither will you. 

In my humble opinion, you will never get your self-entitled place at the TAPE-PC$OT feeding trough. There ain't no room for your big fat Irish squash, capiche?

Remember, YOU are the Masshole interloper.

What would Whitey have done, if the shoe were on the other foot?

My Guess: Two in the hat.

Joe, it looks like the fix is in. You need to accept that immutable fact. If you can't, then  perhaps you should see a doctor.

Meanwhile, the [big picture] polygraph indu$try continues to minimize victimization.

Why?

Because the lie-detection racket is primarily about one thing: MONEY.

It was true in Keeler's day, and it's true now.

“But above all he must refrain from seizing the property of others, because a man is quicker to forget the death of his father than the loss of his patrimony.”

—The Prince

Don’t be greedy. “Bears make money, bulls make money, but pigs get slaughtered.”

Dan, I did answer the question, in great detail.  You just didn't like my answer.   

Jimmy was very Machiavellian when it came to business.  You watch too many movies guy.   

Sorry you didn't like my answer from before, but I don't repeat myself, unless I feel it somehow benefits me.  Anyway, I thought my answers last time were very clear.

Joe, you dodged my question a while back. 

It's a very important question, one that is most germane to your TAPE-PC$OT situation.

Here it is again: 

What would Whitey Bulger have done if Texans blew into Southie and started running rackets there?

We look forward to your thoughts.

Meanwhile, reading your posts, one gets the sense that you have a certain level of respect for James "Whitey" Bulger.

Please explain why Whitey's business model doesn't apply to you and your own invasion of TAPE's long-established PC$OT bidness turf.

Joe, your arguments about capitalism, fair trade, anti-trust and free enterprise are mere pipe dreams.

BUSINESS 101: It's all about who owns the street.

Their win is tainted, and that is of their own doing

Dan Mangan wrote on Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:13am:



I am not as pessimistic.  I know, yes I just said that.  I believe, given the right circumstances, and enough tenacity, the right thing can happen; for everyone.  A fair, open, and transparent market is good for everyone.  

As far as them winning.

There are no winners in this mess after 2014.  Before then, Maria TAPE and the round up gang were clear winners.  Problem is, it wasn't good enough for them, they made the choice to keep the fight going.  

Then when I gave them what they wanted, and asked for only reciprocity, giving up all my legitimate arguments, Maria and TAPE still decided it wasn't good enough.  

Then I tried to walk away after the Holden truce, not good enough. Maria and TAPE just had to keep this whole thing going by continuing the libel and slander campaign.  

Now, and I know you will disagree with this, I have exposed not only their hypocrisy, but their fear as well.  The truth is out there about the massive polygraph problem in Tarrant County  that existed during the lawsuit, and just may still exist today.  Only way to know for sure if it still exists, is if it's checked on; sadly, the industry or the State won't do it.  

I know we can't count on TAPE to do it, because the president of TAPE is one of the people responsible for the 45% inconclusive rate.  How funny is that?  Someone with a number like that gets rewarded with piss poor, sub standard work..... LOL.... Kinda backs up some of your arguments huh?

Can't count on JPCOT, they are a toothless non governmental licensing agency, holding on to their authority by a thread.  They are one legal challenge or sales pitch away from extinction if you think about it.  They are a huge liability to the State.  All it takes is one act of over arrogance or one examiner to run one bad test that becomes a news story, and they are done.  Personally, if I were a TDLR member, I would be filing for a bill to take over sex offender polygraph licensing.  More protection for the people of Texas,  the consumer, more accountability for the examiner, a market that becomes a level playing field through likening, and more licensing revenue for the State.   Everyone wins.

Well.... except for the examiners who benefit the most by keeping as much control over the market as possible.  A level playing field, would be a nightmare to those examiners.  

But none of this would even be a discussion right now if they had just left well enough alone.  As you pointed out, they won; by hook and by crook.  

I was quiet, compliant, capitulant, defeated, demoralized, and leaned to tolerate their antics in silence.  Then they had to show me their true agenda was still my exit or expulsion from the business, which woke me up that I was in a fight for my right to exist.  

Before 2014, they had totally won, and the truth about what happened at the end of the lawsuit and what happened after it ended would have been ambiguous.

In 2014, I was backed into a corner to not only expose the truth, but to confirm the truth. A big part of the truth they confirm is they lack of willingness to take the test they sell, and lack of evidence that I am lying, to file a lawsuit.  Let's also note, the reason they can't prove that I am lying, is because the evidence that I am telling the truth is all on their own documentation. 

Now anyone who wants to know the truth, can come here to find it; and they can call me to review it.  

Another thing that bites them in the ass, I was ready to burn every box of documents when I thought a deal had been made for peace.  If TAPE had just kept its word in 2014, I wouldn't be able to say anything I'm saying now, because I wouldn't have any proof to back up my claims.  

Way to think ahead Maria, John and Jack.

They don't want to go to court to prove I'm lying, they won't take a polygraph to prove I'm telling the truth.

They went from being the total winners in this fight, to being exposed as people of questionable motives and even more questionable integrity.  

Given their un-deniable questionable activity, dishonesty, and outright unethical behavior that I have exposed, how anyone can trust anything these people say or do is baffling to me at best. 

I can say this, there are a lot of defense lawyers, who are just itching to get some of these people on the stand in a revocation hearing.  There are also a lot of lawyers who can't wait to subpoena charts; because I'm teaching them how to read and score to check behind us.

Joe McCarthy wrote on Dec 9^th, 2016 at 11:03pm:


ROTFLMAO

Joe, stop wasting your time.

Polygraph is mainly about one thing: MONEY.

The indu$try bastards won, so stop being an idealistic chump. 

I suggest you move on.

As for me, I'll be gone on December 31st.

Enough is enough.

Thanks for you input though Dan, but I have enough people trying to kick the dog, I don't need another.  If you're going to retire, then retire already.   

i'm going to keep fighting to, I hope change two things, get some peace, and make this a better industry.  I have been willing to throw away vindication in the past, so if this works, I will toss it aside again.

But I will not stop fighting for fair, independent, and unbiased polygraph; and with that will come a market that benefits everyone.

On your fist point.

Go crappity smack Yourself.  I mice would be petty awesome, if other people would put shit behind them as I have tried to put this behind me.   

Morover, you implying that I am exaggerating, come on down and try to like my life and pay my bills while thee people do everything in their power to keep you from competing in the market.  Frankly I was I was exaggerating, because if I was, that would mean I am making more money than I claim not to be making.  I would love to be exaggerating the bullshit I life with down here.   

Lastly,

Something may be happening to significantly change the game down here.  I might have gotten the attention of someone who can, on at least a small level, turn a restricted, non transparent market, into a transparent fairer market, where everyone benefits; including the consumer, the public and the examiners.  ALL of the examiners, not just me.   

And really that is what I am working to do.  A closed, restricted, hostile, market, where no one is checking behind us is bad for everyone.  It's bad for the consumer, the public, the examiner, as well as others involved and the industry.   

Whats wrong Dan, you can't beat the industry, so now you're going to take it out on me?

Here's why you couldn't beat them.  Because you want to only destroy the industry, while offering nothing to improve it.  You say you have all these ideas, but you have no solutions.  You also don't even show up to APA meetings to lobby your position, of get people to see your side of the coin.  That is part of the reason we have these things you know, and exchange of ideas.  No one would stop you from speaking your mind.  When I went, no one stopped me from speaking mine, and intact more got done there than when I went to TAPE in October 2014.

The partial peace I achieved there is holding, and there is less hostility at least in regard to that direction than others.  But hey, let's not see or recognize that, because that flying in the face of the martyr bullshit.   

If you can't be part of the solution, don't be a part of the problem.  Sometimes, it almost seems like you want to BE the problem though.  Having said that, I believe you could be a bigger part of the solution, if you really wanted to solve the stuff you say you want to solve.  But your idea of solving is destruction, not building.

Anyway, got work to do over the weekend.  If this works the way I hope it will, it will improve work product of all examiners, by encouraging competition.  Competition, makes for better examiners, better work product and encourages innovation, which promotes growth.  It will foster an environment of accountability.  And I hope with all that, will create a market, that words better for everyone, not just one.   

In the end, that is what the root of this 10 year fight has been all about