1  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Polygraph Procedure / Re: RCMP Pre-Employment Polygraph Examinations Expose!
 on: Jul 25th, 2024 at 11:26pm 
Quote:
Most RCMP PEP polygraphs are now done by contractors. The pre-test interview procedure (going over the RMAQ questionnaire) varies. Sometimes you are left alone with question categories under the different form sections to think about what else you might want to add and then write it down after some initial prompting; other times they go through all the questions one by one with you. I suspect they will phase out the polygraph over the next few years. Mention of it has already been removed from the "How to apply to become an RCMP officer" page at:
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/how-to-apply

The recruiter will just quote what is in the applicant PEP booklet or information sheet (which incidentally was initially developed by a US polygraph company word for word).

The machine does not and cannot show deception. The machine shows a physiological response which can be deemed a significant response by the examiner. If the examiner really doesn't like you, then he (never saw a she), might conduct a post-test interrogation essentially asking which question you think that you reacted to the most, why do you think you reacted to that question, and asking you, "when was the last time that you...", looking for any admissions. If the examiner likes you then nothing will be said and the Significant Response (SR) will simply be noted in the report. There's a reason why the PEP is done by independent contractors and it's to avoid that first scenario.

In both cases it's not possible to really "fail" the lifestyle scope polygraph step without making significant admissions (the exception being US CI (counterintelligence) scope polygraphs where you can fail by chart point scoring alone). It's just an enhanced lifestyle background interview with props and a flair for the dramatic. The report then goes to recruiting to review. Before, when they had RMs like Sergeants do it in house, that person could literally pick up the phone, call the Recruiting Corporal and influence the file, but now it's probably all contractors submitting a written report reviewed by a civilian analyst. At best it can be inconclusive solely going by the machine so you might not "pass". What would happen is that someone in recruiting would review the report (for new disclosures) and decide if it's a deferral or whether you continue on to the next step.

It used to be something like this in general:
NRPC – Suitability reviews the RMAQ.

NRPC – Processing will save the results to the applicant's folder.
If the applicant is not recommended, then the application is closed.
If the applicant is recommended, then the application will move forward to TVS.
TVS will administer the PEP.

NRPC – Processing will save the results to the applicant's folder and the application will move forward to NRPC - Suitability.
NRPC – Suitability reviews the PEP results.

NRPC – Processing will save the results to the applicant's folder.
If the applicant is not recommended, then the application is closed.
If the applicant is recommended, then the application will move forward to DSB and divisional Health Services, concurrently.


No one can identify true "signs of deception", not the machine, not the examiner, and sometimes not even the applicant. It's a true wilderness of mirrors!

Here is an example of how accurate the RCMP pre-employment polygraph PEP examination is:
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/alleged-voyeur-mountie-is-also-a-suspe...
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-mountie-accused-of-sex-offences-involving-minors-plead...
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2020/07/16/suspended-richmond-rcmp-officer-charged...
https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/suspended-richmond-rcmp-officer-charged-with-v...

Seangio began his training at the RCMP Depot in June 2016 and later that year was posted to the Richmond, B.C. detachment, one of the largest in the country.

Indeed, many of the charges against Seangio laid by Ottawa police predate him becoming an RCMP police officer.

Ottawa police allege the offences span from 2011 to 2018.
Seangio joined the Richmond RCMP in 2016 (this means he did the PEP within 12 months of June 2016). Yet, the suspended RCMP officer has been charged with 34 counts of voyeurism and three counts of sexual assault involving six women known to him. According to the Ottawa Police Service (OPS), the alleged offences in Ottawa occurred between 2011 and 2018 while he was living in that city.


The RCMP Member went through the PEP stage AFTER the Ottawa incidents took place. This is probably the best example of how useless the RCMP PEP stage and polygraph truly is. It detected nothing and the guy most likely had zero training about how to defeat it. It's true, you only need to be relaxed and confident to pass. And of course, make no admissions (the only way to really "fail" the RCMP PEP).

P.S.

Here is a great report about the RCMP (Regular Member) RM recruitment process. I think it's worth a read:


https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/integrated-assessment-regular-member-recruitment

The most interesting piece is this "2018: Acceptance of "Significant Reactions" during the PEP". It basically means the polygraph is as useless as everyone knew it was and the only way to "fail" that step is if you make disqualifying admissions, which would disqualify you before the PEP ever happened or shortly thereafter if disclosed later. In other words, it's literally impossible to fail the PEP from the machine results or the polygraph operator's opinion alone. It's not like in the movies at all. I have personally done polygraphs several times with different examiners and I know it can be completely different depending on who does it. Or wait..."2019: Pilot to implement Eye Detect technology as a way to supplement the PEP"; maybe it really is like in Blade Runner and The Recruit! If you want to become an Intelligence Analyst, all of those positions are now civilian and don't even require a polygraph for the Top Secret RCMP clearance.

Appendix A – Major changes to RM recruitment

Changes to the organizational and program structure:

2004: Establishment of the lateral entry program
2006: Establishment of the NRP as a policy centre
2012: Establishment of the NRPC in Regina
2013: Establishment of the Experienced Police Officer Program
2014: Establishment of the Final Application Status Tracking (FAST) team
2014: Establishment of appeals process
2015: Establishment of the Aboriginal Applicant Mentorship Program
2016: Opportunity for applicants from E, K, F and D Divisions to select their home province for their first posting
2016: Decision to increase troops to 40 per year
2017: Establishment of the Business Intelligence Unit
2017: Pilot to centralize medical assessments at NHQ
2017: Transfer of the Aboriginal Applicant Mentorship Program to National Aboriginal Policing Services (in C&IP)
2018: Pilot of the Enhanced Training of Francophone Troop.

Changes to the process:

2013: Granting of conditional troop offers
2016: Electronic intake of applications and forms
2016: Implementation of Cognos
2016: Removal of conditional offers
2018: Implementation of ATS
2018: Decision to start the security clearance stage once medical has been completed
2018: Acceptance of "Significant Reactions" during the PEP
2019: Pilot to send unilingual French applicants for a 13 week intensive English language training prior to going to Depot
2019: Pilot to implement Eye Detect technology as a way to supplement the PEP

Changes to application requirements:

2013: Removal of mandatory requirement for applicants to attend a career presentation
2015: Requirement for applicants to complete hearing and vision exam before applying
2016: Acceptance of applicants who are permanent residents of Canada

Changes to the assessment tools:

2015: Requirement for applicants to pass PARE before applying
2015: Exemption of RPAT for applicants with university degrees
2016: Exemption of RPAT for applicants with a college diploma
2016: Removal of PARE requirement before applying
2016: Removal of RMSI (face-to-face interview)
2018: Establishment of the Right-Fit interview

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media/4461/initial/11270a07120b6376c5555acae6ea7b...

RCMP police officer recruitment process map diagram, current in 2020 (rarely changes much):
https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media/4461/initial/11270a07120b6376c5555acae6ea7b...


Hello, do you know if Significant Reactions are still accepted by the RCMP? Also, do you know if municipal agencies here in Canada fail you on chart point scoring alone?

2  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Voice Stress Analysis - The Real Deal
 on: Jul 20th, 2024 at 6:55pm 
First of all, there is no such thing as a lie detector. 

All too often both polygraph and voice stress analysis (VSA) are referred to as such. Neither of these two devices detect lies. Both are only stress detectors that provide feedback for emotional responses to questions asked. Therefore, either can only be considered a tool to help an examiner arrive at a subjective opinion regarding the veracity of someone's responses to questions asked. When used properly, both can help to focus intelligence collection and investigative efforts.

3  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Polygraph Policy / Re: Justin St. Germain's experience with the pre-employment polygraph
 on: Jul 17th, 2024 at 7:20pm 
Great article, thanks for sharing.  It is obvious that the polygraphist Kevin was failing as many people as possible to lessen the chance of having another embarrassment like the Aldrich Ames case.  The game is to flunk as many as possible.  If it turns out the individuals were not lying, the polygraphist can blame the tested people for attempting to use counter measures, such as fast or slow breathing, muscle tightening, etc.
One problem we have in the law enforcement community in general is the shortage of operatives.  The lie community is putting public safety at risk with their pseudo-science careerism and game playing.  We need boots on the ground and keeping capable people out of public service careers is already having serious repercussions on public safety. Again, polygraphists and voice stress analysts must stop putting their careerism ahead of the safety of America.

4  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Polygraph Policy / Justin St. Germain's experience with the pre-employment polygraph
 on: Jul 16th, 2024 at 11:03pm 
This may have already been posted in Personal Statements.

Justin St. Germain posted his experience with the CBP pre-employment polygraph.

https://lithub.com/what-the-all-american-delusion-of-the-polygraph-says-about-ou...

5  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 14th, 2024 at 2:38am 
That is the problem with polys and VSAs.  Too many bad people are passing, and too many good people are failing.  Even if "It" is trolling, it does not change the fact that so-called lie detectors are destroying lives by letting criminals go, think Gary Ridgway, and innocent people nearly being killed for entertainment on the Steve Wilkos show.

6  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 9th, 2024 at 10:57pm 
Well, I'm not here to troll, I was being completely honest in my polygraph success story.  I have a few "bad" friends who also passed their polys thanks to this site.  But, if you don't want me to post in this thread anymore, then I won't.

7  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 9th, 2024 at 2:56pm 
Quote:
George W. Maschke wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

Right...


George, are you denying the fact that someone like me can pass an IC full-scope poly while hiding criminal activity?  Or are you just repudiating that someone like me would come on this forum and make such a confession?


I think you're here to troll. Please don't.

8  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 9th, 2024 at 12:38pm 
George W. Maschke wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

Right...


George, are you denying the fact that someone like me can pass an IC full-scope poly while hiding criminal activity?  Or are you just repudiating that someone like me would come on this forum and make such a confession?

9  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:55pm 
Quote:
I recently received a final job offer with a three-letter U.S. government agency.  I needed top-secret clearance with a full scope poly.  I took the poly about a year ago and thought I failed but the agency started my background check and such and here I am a year later with a start date!  I guess it means I passed!

I did not use any countermeasures.  I followed the basic advice that I got from this website and other blogs and forums, which all now seem to be offline or defunct.  That advice is:  DO NOT CONFESS.  I was interrogated of course and accused of being deceptive about crime, drugs, etc.  I denied everything.  My denials were complete lies of course because I literally had child porn on my computer for years but just deleted all because of this job. lol.  I also did some illegal drugs and had sex overseas with underage hookers in the past few years but I stopped those activities as well.    The poly really is easy to pass if you can survive the harsh interrogation and just don't tell them anything.  Thanks Antipolygraph.org!



Right...

10  Polygraph and CVSA Forums / Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience / Re: Thank you Antipolygraph.org! I passed my poly and got a final job offer.
 on: Jul 8th, 2024 at 10:31am 
I know I am being stupid by making confessions here but I am using TOR and I doubt any law enforcement will find this post and seek out to track me down.  I'm not worth that effort.  Everyone relax and beat your poly. 
Wink

 
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