I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about and quite honestly, I've read the book and still feel like I'm gonna fail. My question is if I fail a poly graph test can they send me back to jail? and do I answer control questions honestly such as have you ever stole anything? and relevant questions like have you been on the internet lately dishonestly? Just need some advice most likely won't help but thanks anyways.

Brickman,

Here is my advice to you. Don't mess with judges, they are not very sympathetic to those who skirt the injunctions imposed upon them. The judge is the sole person who can make a decision to revoke your probation and send you to jail. I'm reading into your post that you are in treatment as well due to the "no phone or internet." So, the input of your PO & treatment providers will carry a lot of weight.

Don't break the terms of your probation, period. If you feel a need to be deceptive on a polygraph exam, you need to discuss this candidly with your attorney. Studying what is contained in TLBTLD may help alleviate the possibility of a False Positive, but if accessing the info is a violation of your terms, I would have to advise against it.

If you are indeed in treatment, work your program and learn to make better choices.

wrote on Oct 1^st, 2015 at 5:01pm:

I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about...

You seem to be asking us to abet you in breaking the terms of your probation and helping you to lie to your PO or to a judge.  Under these circumstances we cannot help you.

A great counter-polygraph activist and trainer, Doug Williams, was recently persecuted by a rogue bureau of the U.S. government for being popular and effective.  Unfortunately he unwisely did exactly what you are asking us to do.  This gave his powerful enemies the leverage to impose a conviction and send him to jail.

Every corrupt politician knows that if someone is engaged in activity X and it's legal but you don't like it, you accuse and convict him of illegal activity Y -- but you tell the press that the indictment was for X.  In Doug's case X is polygraph countermeasure training and Y is conspiring and abetting lying to due authorities.

Nobody here wants to be the next Doug Williams.

-Aunty Agony.

Quote:

[quote][quote]Quote: I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about...

Quote:
I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about...

You seem to be asking us to abet you in breaking the terms of your probation and helping you to lie to your PO or to a judge.  Under these circumstances we cannot help you.

A great counter-polygraph activist and trainer, Doug Williams, was recently persecuted by a rogue bureau of the U.S. government for being popular and effective.  Unfortunately he unwisely did exactly what you are asking us to do.  This gave his powerful enemies the leverage to impose a conviction and send him to jail.

Every corrupt politician knows that if someone is engaged in activity X and it's legal but you don't like it, you accuse and convict him of illegal activity Y -- but you tell the press that the indictment was for X.  In Doug's case X is polygraph countermeasure training and Y is conspiring and abetting lying to due authorities.

Nobody here wants to be the next Doug Williams.

-Aunty Agony.[/quote]

Every now and then a real gem of a post comes along--this is one of those. 

It summarizes quite nicely the considerations for anyone who would provide assistance to alleged victims of polygraph abuse and it clearly outlines the threshold level for believability and integrity that those victims coming to this site (or to any of us on an individual basis) must meet.  For now and evermore let it be known as "Aunty's test."  You want help, pass it, and you shall receive...

Aunty's test is not a one-shot thing.  You must pass it with every visit to the site and/or with every contact with an individual with some expertise that you seek advice from. 

If you ever fail the test, you never again receive assistance.

Perhaps the site administrator can post a useable version of Aunty's test that must be read with every log on to the site, so that everyone seeking assistance will be aware of it...

I suppose it should be useful to note that Aunty's test (when applied both by those who seek as well as those who provide assistance) will not only have approaching victims self-screen at least their stories (someone who asks for my assistance to break the law, disobey a judge's order, etc. is failing the stupidity test), if not their motivations, but it will also put those who seek to entrap out of business.

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

You seem to be asking us to abet you in breaking the terms of your probation and helping you to lie to your PO or to a judge.  Under these circumstances we cannot help you.

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are.  You all offer your advice to those unqualified applicants for all the 3-letter agencies who want to beat the system, and your sympathy to those who didn't, but you're not willing to offer advice to convicted sex offenders, those of probation/parole, and criminal suspects who have to undergo polygraph testing?  What bullshit.  You do it every day on this site.  You just don't know who it is you're helping. 

As for Doug, he was prosecuted, not persecuted.  And he pled guilty because he was guilty.

Quickfix,


Quote:

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are.  You all offer your advice to those unqualified applicants for all the 3-letter agencies

If Aunty and friends had been around at the time and had been more concerned about unqualified applicants and 3 letter agencies, you might not have been hired ;)

quickfix, my personal view is that if anyone has a need to lie on a polygraph exam that they should not submit to polygraph testing.

Regarding teaching of countermeasures, I at one time, didn't dream that such activity would be illegal. I always thought that there should be a counterpoise to all things. But obviously such is not the case.

To think that the users of this forum are a crack team of countermeasure experts poised to usurp the justice system is fantasy. I personally would never entertain the thought.

quickfix wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 3:08pm:

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are.  You all offer your advice to those unqualified applicants for all the 3-letter agencies who want to beat the system, and your sympathy to those who didn't, but you're not willing to offer advice to convicted sex offenders, those of probation/parole, and criminal suspects who have to undergo polygraph testing?  What bullshit.  You do it every day on this site.  You just don't know who it is you're helping. As for Doug, he was prosecuted, not persecuted.  And he pled guilty because he was guilty.

Quickfix, let me ask a straightforward question.  Do you admit that at least occasionally innocent people get falsely accused by the polygraph and have their lives unjustly ruined ?  If not, do you say that the polygraph is infallible and is never wrong ?

Yes, occasionally false positives occur, the vast majority of which are in the screening arena.  It's not 100%, but it is also not as antipolygraph types claim "little better than a coin flip".  Lives "ruined"? No, that's bullshit.  No one is "entitled" to government employment or a security clearance.  They are privileges, not rights.  If you don't get hired, your life is not ruined.  You find another job and move on. 

You anti types claim to help those who want to ensure they pass a preemployment poly, then claim you won't help a sex offender pass with the use of CMs.  How noble.  How naïve also, to think that visitors to this site who are rapists/child molesters/sex offenders will not use what they learn here.  Let ME ask YOU a question, one that I have asked George twice with no response:  how would you feel if a rapist successfully used CMs he picked up from this site or from Doug Williams to pass a criminal poly, and the victim of that rape was your wife/daughter/sister?  How would you like it then?

Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, and perhaps the greatest serial killer in American history passed a criminal specific issue polygraph exam in the midst of his continuing to kill--a killing spree reported to involve at least 49 murder victims. 

How do you feel about that, Quickfix? That polygraphy could play a role (a false-negative-polygraph-result assisted killing spree) in causing horrendous harm (even before the origins of antipolygraph.org)---amazing isn't it? 

As antipolygraph.org (George and others) seek to expose the fraud, waste, and abuse of lie detection,  and to minimize and end the the cost of its errors, perhaps it is time for you and your colleagues to recognize the inherent flaws in that which you do...

quickfix: you are confusing "entitlement" with "right."

Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position.

If you allow the use of junk science polygraphy, why not employ voice stress, astrology or palmistry?  The CVSA has been advertised as being 1/3 cheaper than the polygraph.  Maybe the positions of the planets and stars at the time of the applicant's birth to determine eligibility for employment and clearance.  Just think of all the potential savings of money if background investigations were to be eliminated.

Evan S wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:05pm:

Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position.

That's correct;  and the ones who pass their polygraphs are the ones rationally evaluated as "best qualified"


getrealalready wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 5:54pm:

Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, and perhaps the greatest serial killer in American history passed a criminal specific issue polygraph exam in the midst of his continuing to kill--a killing spree reported to involve at least 49 murder victims.

Ridgway is a psychopath,  and as competent examiners know, a psychopath should never be administered a polygraph.  They are not candidates for valid results. 

quickfix wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 5:41pm:

Lives "ruined"? No, that's bullshit.  No one is "entitled" to government employment or a security clearance.  They are privileges, not rights.  If you don't get hired, your life is not ruined.  You find another job and move on.

Military officers and people of commensurate background have earned the right not to have their integrity challenged unless there exists specific information that they are dishonest.  Specific as in evidence stronger than a polygraph.   You must be insane if you think that someone who has prepared his or her life for a profession in law enforcement or the military can find any type of commensurate employment anywhere else after being blacklisted by the polygraph.  From CIA Case Officer to managing a McDonalds ?  Is that what you mean ?  Lawyer and judges aren't entitled to bar membership either.  Why don't we polygraph them and take away their entitlement to practice law if they don't pass ?  You may say that national security is too important.  Most of our security leaks, however, come from the privileged few who are so high up they aren't threatened by the polygraph.  What hypocrisy.  The mere fact that there are people in our national security apparatus who get access and aren't held accountable to the same standards (our new royalty) means the entire polygraph program is a joke.   

I'll gladly answer your above question.  If a rapist successfully used CMs to pass a polygraph and then raped my wife/daughter/sister,  I would be even more Anti-Polygraph than ever before.  I wouldn't hold one thing against Doug Williams but I would despise the stupid cops that relied on a polygraph instead of using old-fashioned, proven police work. 

Polygraphers make a living collecting easy stats without having to prove anything while honest cops are busting their butts working day and night to make real cases. 

Quickfix,


Quote:

Ridgway is a psychopath,  and as competent examiners know, a psychopath should never be administered a polygraph.  They are not candidates for valid results.

Although there are operational/academic polygraph believers (e.g., http://data.psych.udel.edu/rsimons/PSYC467/Raskin,%20Hare,%201978.pdf) who would say that a psycho/sociopath can be successfully polygraphed for reasons beyond this thread, the issue is really not psychopath vs. normal, but science vs. no-science.  It is not the least bit surprising that polygraphy got it wrong and that molecular biology (DNA testing) solved the matter...

Evan S wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:05pm:

quickfix: you are confusing "entitlement" with "right." Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position. If you allow the use of junk science polygraphy, why not employ voice stress, astrology or palmistry?  The CVSA has been advertised as being 1/3 cheaper than the polygraph.  Maybe the positions of the planets and stars at the time of the applicant's birth to determine eligibility for employment and clearance.  Just think of all the potential savings of money if background investigations were to be eliminated.

In my own experiences, at least, there was certainly no such rational decision-making.  Getting through the BI appears to me to be entirely a matter of chance and luck (which in my case was lacking), not at all related to the applicant's qualifications or abilities! >:(

Evan S wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 7:05pm:

quickfix: you are confusing "entitlement" with "right." Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position. If you allow the use of junk science polygraphy, why not employ voice stress, astrology or palmistry?  The CVSA has been advertised as being 1/3 cheaper than the polygraph.  Maybe the positions of the planets and stars at the time of the applicant's birth to determine eligibility for employment and clearance.  Just think of all the potential savings of money if background investigations were to be eliminated.

Doing so would be no less rational than going through a BI process, which is little more than a popularity contest, in which the applicant's sociopathic skills are evaluated more highly than qualifications or aptitude for the specific job involved.  :)

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

wrote on Oct 1st, 2015 at 5:01pm: I obviously have broken little rules such as being on the internet when I'm not allowed to and have a phone my PO doesn't know about... You seem to be asking us to abet you in breaking the terms of your probation and helping you to lie to your PO or to a judge.  Under these circumstances we cannot help you. A great counter-polygraph activist and trainer, Doug Williams, was recently persecuted by a rogue bureau of the U.S. government for being popular and effective.  Unfortunately he unwisely did exactly what you are asking us to do.  This gave his powerful enemies the leverage to impose a conviction and send him to jail. Every corrupt politician knows that if someone is engaged in activity X and it's legal but you don't like it, you accuse and convict him of illegal activity Y -- but you tell the press that the indictment was for X.  In Doug's case X is polygraph countermeasure training and Y is conspiring and abetting lying to due authorities. Nobody here wants to be the next Doug Williams. -Aunty Agony.

Yet, I certainly hope that this site may inspire future  Edward Snowdens!
:)

quickfix wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 3:08pm:

What a bunch of hypocrites you all are.  You all offer your advice to those unqualified applicants for all the 3-letter agencies who want to beat the system, and your sympathy to those who didn't, but you're not willing to offer advice to convicted sex offenders, those of probation/parole, and criminal suspects who have to undergo polygraph testing.

There are two distinctly different reasons why a person facing a polygraph test would be interested in learning how to increase his chances of passing:

(1) He is guilty and plans to lie about it, and is afraid that the polygraph might be as effective as the APA claims it is, or

(2) He is innocent and plans to tell the truth, and is afraid that the polygraph is bullshit.

THIS is Aunty's test -- not whether he is a convicted sex offender, or is applying for a TLA job, or or is on probation/parole, or wants to be a police officer, or is a criminal suspect -- but whether he plans to lie under examination.

Aunty does not like it when she says one thing and is then told that she said something else.

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:06am:

Aunty does not like it when she says one thing and is then told that she said something else.

  ....but that is how federal polygraph examiners operate.  Don't forget Aunty, they are the real liars !  Add to that the fact that they make a living ruining the careers of fellow officers who are vulnerable and (mostly) innocent.  (Vulnerable in that they have no choice but to submit to this B.S. test) That puts federal polygraph operators in the same category as rats and snitches, only worse because they are lying rats and snitches turning on innocent people!

By the way, I think you should get an award for the best post ever !  You nailed it !

Wandersmann wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 5:03pm:

By the way, I think you should get an award for the best post ever !  You nailed it !

No one gives a shit what you think.

quickfix wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 7:16pm:

No one gives a shit what you think.

Another ad hominem attack.  You're a real class act. 

quickfix wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 7:16pm:

No one gives a shit what you think.

Aunty cannot decide which warms her cockles more: hearing her work described as a gem, or making quickfix cry.

quickfix wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2015 at 8:42pm:

Evan S wrote on Oct 3rd, 2015 at 7:05pm: Yes, no one is entitled to a government job or a security clearance, but the applicant has the right to be rationally evaluated for the position. That's correct;  and the ones who pass their polygraphs are the ones rationally evaluated as "best qualified" getrealalready wrote on Oct 3rd, 2015 at 5:54pm: Gary Ridgway, the Green River killer, and perhaps the greatest serial killer in American history passed a criminal specific issue polygraph exam in the midst of his continuing to kill--a killing spree reported to involve at least 49 murder victims. Ridgway is a psychopath,  and as competent examiners know, a psychopath should never be administered a polygraph.  They are not candidates for valid results.

They make great candidates for employment at  the CIA though! :)

Let me tell my story real quick....

I grabbed my step-daughter's rear end, not as a sex act... her, mom told police, police asked me about it, I said that yeah, it happened (I had nothing to hide, I wasn't trying to have sex with her, for goodness sake)... charged with a sex crime - offered a little bit of probation, took it instead of go to trial, but judge freaked out, called me a 'monster', sentenced me to prison - completed treatment (twice), lowest of the lowest 'risk' to re offend, but have to take polys, per standard rules.

Believed the hype, till I heard about this site. Passed every poly since. My worst 'violation' has been using text messages or the internet, both of which had absolutely nothing to do with my supposed 'crime', or add to any 'risk-factors' for anything.

The info on this site has helped me live a normal life without the fear of incarceration for doing so. Not every person charged or convicted of a sexual offense is a monster, or uses the info on this site to circumvent the system in any way that presents a risk or is problematic...

HOWEVER.... having been around sex offenders, the potential exists for this to happen, imho...  internet use for some offenders could be problematic - contacting minors, looking at porn which could trigger fantasies or a preoccupation with sex or immediate gratification which could lead to re offense... being able to hide their activities from a PO could lead to problems.. they could even hide new crimes or deviant fantasies from their PO or treatment provider. For these types of reasons, I NEVER, EVER share what I know and use with any other person convicted of a sex offense. True pedophiles represent a very minuscule portion of the population of offenders, but the rest of the population who commit offenses do so due to cognitive distortions and such, and never quite rid themselves of these distortions of thinking, leaving themselves at risk for future offenses. The very act of committing violations, in and of itself, is a continuation of these distortions, and is indicative of their lack of good judgement, which displays an increased risk. Furthermore, if these individuals were able to beat polys, it may make them feel brazen enough to engage in even more riskier behaviors, including but not limited to other offenses.

I personally refuse to be responsible for increasing someone's risk to re offend by teaching them to beat polys or telling them about this site, or even remotely hinting that countermeasures even exist, let alone work. Knowledge is power, but can be a dangerous weapon when and if misused or misapplied.

That is my educated two cents....

For the record, my ex started dating another man one week after my arrest, and announced her 'new' relationship on Facebook the day of my sentencing a few months later. Obviously, I was set up. BTW, we were married for four years, with absolutely no sign that there was any trouble when this all happened... hit me right out of the blue. In Wisconsin, they criminalize EVERYTHING. 17 year old guy, 18 year old girl? SHE'S A SEX OFFENDER. WISCONSIN - come on vacation, leave on probation, come back on revocation..... our (un)official state motto...

wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 2:59pm:

True pedophiles represent a very minuscule portion of the population of offenders, but the rest of the population who commit offenses do so due to cognitive distortions and such, and never quite rid themselves of these distortions of thinking, leaving themselves at risk for future offenses.

I personally don't believe pedophilia to be pathological. Inside all of us are a collection of attributes, evolved over time via natural selection, which has allowed our species to survive. At some point in the distant past, those who were attracted to younger members of their species were probably more successful in passing their DNA onto females who were younger and stronger. However, as social aspects of humanity evolved, so did the idea of taboos. So today, sexual interest or behavior with minors is the modern taboo. Those with a "natural" inclination towards young ones are forced to shamefully internalize these desires. This is where the pathology comes in--the conflict between biological and social evolution. This conflict results in personality disorders and the offender cycle.

The polygraph is used in the sex offender containment triad as a 24 hour tail. They contend that this provides them with a tool to best allocate their limited investigative resources. Treatment professionals state that an offender cannot make progress unless all past sexual behaviors are elucidated and point to the polygraph's efficacy in reaching this goal.

Can an offender successfully employ countermeasures during maintenance polygraphs to complete treatment and later reoffend? If such is possible, then the program depends too much on the polygraph and has not implemented other risk safeguards into their treatment model.

Also, forgive me, but you seem to be minimizing your "rear end grabbing."

Ex Member wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 5:24pm:

wrote on Dec 14th, 2015 at 2:59pm: True pedophiles represent a very minuscule portion of the population of offenders, but the rest of the population who commit offenses do so due to cognitive distortions and such, and never quite rid themselves of these distortions of thinking, leaving themselves at risk for future offenses. I personally don't believe pedophilia to be pathological. Inside all of us are a collection of attributes, evolved over time via natural selection, which has allowed our species to survive. At some point in the distant past, those who were attracted to younger members of their species were probably more successful in passing their DNA onto females who were younger and stronger. However, as social aspects of humanity evolved, so did the idea of taboos. So today, sexual interest or behavior with minors is the modern taboo. Those with a "natural" inclination towards young ones are forced to shamefully internalize these desires. This is where the pathology comes in--the conflict between biological and social evolution. This conflict results in personality disorders and the offender cycle. The polygraph is used in the sex offender containment triad as a 24 hour tail. They contend that this provides them with a tool to best allocate their limited investigative resources. Treatment professionals state that an offender cannot make progress unless all past sexual behaviors are elucidated and point to the polygraph's efficacy in reaching this goal. Can an offender successfully employ countermeasures during maintenance polygraphs to complete treatment and later reoffend? If such is possible, then the program depends too much on the polygraph and has not implemented other risk safeguards into their treatment model. Also, forgive me, but you seem to be minimizing your "rear end grabbing."

I could see the logic in your argument - to a point. Minors of a certain age cannot reproduce, so from a purely biological or evolutionary standpoint, why would someone/anyone try to initiate sexual contact with them? Considering that humans are the only (known) creatures to partake in sexual activity for the pleasure element, it becomes painfully obvious that minors of a certain age are targeted, for a lack of better terms, for other purposes and reasons. For instance, many offenders considered pedophiles openly admit that they identify with children emotionally. Another common thread is that pedophiles often don't have appropriate sexual outlets... many never having had even basic sexual contact with age appropriate people. Children are easy for them to take advantage of, to manipulate to fulfill their want for sexual fulfilment, to satisfy their pleasure centers, NOT for reproductive purposes - so those predisposed to doing so take advantage of who they can. While the need/want for sex is evolutionary and biological, I believe that this only applies towards females with the capability to reproduce. By nature, anything else is purely psychological/pathological. Case in point - Most child sex offenses are committed against females who either appear to be of reproducing age or are showing signs of maturation (8 - 17 years old), which makes your point nicely... but the other victims of child sex abuse - males of any age, or female children under a certain age, are targeted for the reasons I specified. An innate desire to have sex with kids is not biological, and can't be, as it serves absolutely no evolutionary purpose.


In Northwestern Wisconsin, where I reside, the SOT maintenance polygraph program is not a 24 hour tail. By nature, it cannot be because they ask a limited amount of questions on the poly, usually routine stuff like 'you use any drugs?' or 'have sex with anyone?'... rarely, if ever, do they delve into issues relevant to your criminal history or anything treatment related. To boot, it says in the Department of Corrections administrative code that no one can face revocation proceedings based solely on a 'failed' polygraph, meaning that there has to be other 'evidence' of wrong-doing. Even an accusation of wrong-doing coupled with a 'failed' polygraph is not enough to get a person locked up on a PO hold, let alone face revocation proceedings. Group therapy - mandated whether you have successfully completed treatment in an incarcerated setting or not - consists of you and 9 other 'offenders' sitting in a room with a 'counselor', bitching about how hard it is to be a sex offender, with maybe 15 minutes of treatment-related stuff going on. This is over an hour to two hour period, once a week. Assignments are to be done on your   own time, whenever you feel like it. 

It is hard to be accountable for your behaviors when you can't be held accountable for your behaviors. Polys are a psychological billy club, used to elicit confessions of wrong-doing in the sex offender community. Because of the possible repercussions of not being held accountable for behaviors that may increase risk, I am ok with this.. Yet again, this is why I don't share info with other offenders. If they knew what I knew, or even knew that I knew what I knew...

And for the record, there is no minimization involved in the recounting of my crime. My crime, as it were, would be considered a minor misdemeanor in 48 out of the 50 states. In Wisconsin, the same act is a class C felony, punishable by up to 40 years? I literally grabbed a butt of a post-pubescent minor female,not a stranger to me, and they brought out the whooping stick. No criminal history, mind you, at the age of 35 + when this happened in 2013. They had to bring out the statute book and charge me with something generalized like 'Incest with a Child by a step-parent', for a butt grab? Regardless of the reasoning for the aforementioned butt grab, they went overboard both in their charging and their sentence. When my lawyer and the DA were discussing reducing the charge to 4th-degree sexual assault - a misdemeanor - they legally couldn't do it, because there was no penetration involved or attempted. By Wisconsin law, if they were going to charge me at all, it HAD to be this charge. The reason that the Judge sentenced me to prison time, instead of the agreed upon time served and two years of probation, was because of the 'seriousness of the felony charge'. The DA even said during their statement at sentencing that this was a case of me 'crossing a boundary, and not realizing it'. There was no victim witness statement, because my step-daughter thought it was all B.S.,and to this day is angry at her mother for using her to accomplish her relationship goals.

I don't minimize, but I will call a spade a spade. Wisconsin is also one of a very few states to do bifurcated sentencing, which all the forward thinking states did away with(some 48 of them, mind you).

While polys don't work, in the sense that the science is junk, their intended goal has useful applications in a post-conviction setting.

For the record, my treatment provider knows that I know what I know... and is ok with it. Anyone else would face revocation proceedings for having learned about the truth of polys/countermeasures. In a post conviction setting, I am using this knowledge to assure that I am not subject to scrutiny for a 'failed' polygraph when, in reality, I do nothing that goes toward the potential for increased risk. I have absolutely zero to feel guilty about, and have the right to be safeguarded against false positives.

Consequently, the examiner could ask me if I was the Pope of Antarctica, and I'd 'pass' the question...

Let's see if Aunty understands your predicament.

You did not commit any sex offense, you were set up by your wife because she wanted to clear the way for her adultery, and you were betrayed by a judge who would not honor a plea bargain brokered by the DA.  Therefore it's okay for you to know that a polygraph test is a dangerous psychological billy club and to know how to pass it even while lying, because you are innocent and have the right to be safeguarded against false positives.

However you are the only person to whom anything like this has ever happened.  Everyone else who has been convicted of a sex crime, like you, and must attend a post-conviction treatment program, like you, and wants to live a normal life without the fear of incarceration for doing so, like you, should be deprived of this safeguard because otherwise they will inevitably succumb to the disgusting urges bequeathed on them by a warped evolutionary -

Aunty apologizes for the interruption, but she had to put out a fire.  Her hypocrisy meter exploded.

Aunty Agony wrote on Dec 15^th, 2015 at 1:22am:

Let's see if Aunty understands your predicament. You did not commit any sex offense, you were set up by your wife because she wanted to clear the way for her adultery, and you were betrayed by a judge who would not honor a plea bargain brokered by the DA.  Therefore it's okay for you to know that a polygraph test is a dangerous psychological billy club and to know how to pass it even while lying, because you are innocent and have the right to be safeguarded against false positives. However you are the only person to whom anything like this has ever happened.  Everyone else who has been convicted of a sex crime, like you, and must attend a post-conviction treatment program, like you, and wants to live a normal life without the fear of incarceration for doing so, like you, should be deprived of this safeguard because otherwise they will inevitably succumb to the disgusting urges bequeathed on them by a warped evolutionary - Aunty apologizes for the interruption, but she had to put out a fire.  Her hypocrisy meter exploded.

Two things: Judges are not bound by law in wisconsin to honor plea agreements and kudos to the guy not allowing offenders to lie, and thus stay in their cycles. there is the exception, then there is the rule. Cant personally think of any so's over the age of 19 who can say with any authority that sleeping with or sexually touching someone under the age of consent is ok. The rule is that so's in general are psychologically damaged folks who need monitoring until they are proven to be low risk. They are the rule. Persecuted, and teens who sleep with teens, are the exception. Kudos, Persecuted, for using discretion.

wrote on Dec 14^th, 2015 at 2:59pm:

Two things

Neither of which addresses the fundamental hypocrisy of your position on the publication and dissemination of information about the failures and dangers of the polygraph.

Aunty understands your desperate need to distance yourself from "real" sex offenders by any means possible, if only in your own mind, so she will not upset you further with more objective argument.

For anyone else reading this, Aunty wishes only to make this observation:  The exposure of a social injustice always elicits two disjoint responses from the people.  Group C asks "How can the distance between the oppressors and the oppressed be reduced or eliminated?"  Group A asks "How can I avoid being one of the oppressed and become one of the privileged oppressors?"

In the case of oppression via polygraph, PersecutedInWisconsin is satisfied with his membership in group A.

Civilization is advanced only by group C.  Aunty likes civilization.

That wasn't me. Do not attribute things to me that I did not say, please. I am not trying to separate myself from anything or anyone. Facts and logic alone do that. My reason for sharing my story was to provide background for my statement that while the poly is crap, it has good uses occasionally. My reasoning is very sound, and your objective view on the issue doesn't help, because you have no way of being armed with enough of the facts concerning this particular issue to reach an educated conclusion. That is not a 'diss', that is just the way it is. Do you sit next to sex offenders, listen to their stories, know their distortions and such to the point where you can logically conclude that providing them with a means to further their distortions is safe? The people who commit sex offences do so because their minds are screwed up in some fundamental way. Until they decide to fix that, they are a danger. No ifs, ands or buts. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is the tool needed to fix themselves. By choosing to make decisions that are not good for themselves - i.e., break the rules and risk incarceration, for instance - they are proving that they are still cognitively distorted. The whole of their therapy- and their rules - is based on this premise. You have to practice making the right decisions to continue making the right decisions. To be cognitively distorted, when that is the basis for your sex offense to begin with, is the epitome of being a risk to offend again. Ergo, to give offenders the tools to purposely be cognitively distorted is to allow them to not only prevent themselves from helping themselves, but to put the community at risk. I'm not gonna be responsible for that. Neither should anyone else. Personally, I loathe the system... but I am 100% willing to play dumb to allow others to be safe. My therapist knows this, and we have talked about this in private. Like I said, he knows that I know what I know, and that I choose not to share the information. He also knows why I choose not to share it. I have kids. I don't want someone fantasizing about or touching them. Knowledge is power, like I earlier stated. I am in a position to completely understand both sides of the coin, both as an objective observer, and as someone fully involved in all aspects of what we are discussing. That is why I spoke up in the first place. Cases like mine are few and far between, trust me. Those in therapy, or who have been to prison for sex offenses, go for a reason almost all of the time. The poly needs to be the aforementioned 'billy club' for them, lest they stay in their cycles, and society pays for it. It is an absolutely necessary evil. To boot, most people, let alone people like sex offenders who are cognitively distorted, do not posses the capability to understand completely the lie behind the lie detector. I have seen so many people try to beat the poly with just countermeasures, without having the belief in their heart and soul that the whole thing is a farce. They go in thinking, 'will this work?', and they are still nervous, and they fail - with great legal ramifications - because they don't BELIEVE the truth. You can't teach belief and confidence, and even though these guys don't deserve to get away with  lying because of what that means for their treatment, I also don't want to see them go to jail because of failing a 'test' due to trying to cheat it without having the real tools to do so. So, by telling them about countermeasure or about this site, I'd be either letting them stay sick in the head by perpetuating their distortions, thus putting the community at risk,  or i'd be sending them to the slammer because I can only teach them about the tools, not how to use them or believe in their application.

Sounds like a lose-lose. And you are comfortable with this, on what moral grounds?

(drops microphone, walks away)

Peace out, yo. 8-)

wrote on Dec 16^th, 2015 at 1:43pm:

My reason for sharing my story was to provide background for my statement that while the poly is crap, it has good uses occasionally.

I am so sick of this twisted logic.  The above statement was pretty much what DNI Clapper said to the stupid senator during his confirmation hearing.  When asked about the mountain of innocent poly victims Clapper avoided the subject by referring to the alleged successes that justified the existence of the poly.  The senator was too stupid to see through his lack of candor and let the comment stand.  Sometimes the polygraph works you say ?  So does torture. 

Persecuted in Wisconsin,

Thank you for sharing your polygraph experience and perspective. How did you hear about this site?

I don't fault you for not mentioning this site to others in your situation. For you to do so would put you at risk of being denounced to your probation officer and could result in sanctions.

But why do you assume that the others in your group haven't learned the same things about polygraphy that you have?

Thank you, George.

In short, people talk, and people brag. If anyone had successfully passed a poly while lying, the news would spread like wildfire in the local offender community. There is a lot that goes on that probation and parole does not know about, in terms of how offenders are 'gaming' the system and getting away with it. These things are readily shared in the offender community. This would be big, big news in that community. Ground-breaking, in fact.

I discovered this site while researching the poly. Once I was told I was mandated to take them, I did the intelligent thing, and decided to learn about them; I believed that they worked, and just wanted to know what to expect. This site was the second or third listing when I typed 'polygraph' into my search engine. I was skeptical, to say the least... until I took my first poly. Everything went just as TLBTLD said it would, and I knew this site was true and correct. With breathing, physical countermeasures, and the honest belief that the poly was/is a farce, I passed.

wrote on Dec 17^th, 2015 at 12:02am:

With breathing, physical countermeasures, and the honest belief that the poly was/is a farce, I passed.

Are you willing to share if this was an avoided false positive or a genuine false negative?

Two of each, Actually.