I appealed my CIA clearance denial last January 2014 by responding to the SOR. Does any know how long this appeal process will take?

It takes 2 years. And your appeal will be denied.  You'll be given one more chance to appeal to someone higher up, and that appeal will also be denied.  At that point the letter they send you will say something like "this is our final correspondence with you".  When I did it, I chose not to waste money on a lawyer and an in-person appearance.  I just wrote an appeal letter and moved on.  I was surprised to get the certified letter two years later from the good ol' agency.

Care to share your story?  Why was your clearance denied?  Did you polygraph and do your 3-day processing at the CIA Dulles Discovery Building in Chantilly VA?

Hi Guest,

Have you responded to anyone of my previous posts on the CIA?

I applied for a personnel security assistant position with USIS which was a contractor position at the CIA. Basically I "failed" the polygraph on my first try. Then they interrogated me for 4 hours. They brought me back again for another "polygraph" and I failed that too. The adjudicators requested to speak with me but then ended up interrogating me for several more hours. They basically tried to make sound like I viewed illegal material willingly online. I was coerced into agreeing to their false allegations.

I probably have responded to you before.  Which previous posts are you referring to?

I've been on and off of antipolygraph.org for years, under different screen names and ip addresses, always careful to conceal my identity. 

1. When and where (dulles discovery?) did your CIA  poly take place?
2. What exactly did they make you confess to? Was it viewing illegal material online, what type of material?
3. Did you get that letter saying you were denied access to classified info?
4. Did they make you sign a piece of paper regarding your confession?

I too failed a couple of back to back CIA polygraphs.  Same routine as described in TLBTLD.  Only I never confessed, but they accused me of using countermeasures and rejected me.  I bet the CIA is still using their same old tricks after all these years.

Hi moving on,

I'm referring to this post I wrote:
Did you go by "another CIA reject"?


CIA Polygraph Thoughts
Apr 19th, 2014 at 11:55pm Mark & Quote Quote  I wrote these thoughts about the CIA polygraph after having gone through the process myself and had my clearance denied.

//I’ve been doing some research on the use of the polygraph in a certain agency of the federal government, and I have come to the firm moral conviction that it should be banned to protect the innocent. Some helpful open source readings that have lead me to this conclusion are:

The Gatekeeper: Memoirs of a CIA Polygraph Examiner
The Value of the Polygraph in CIA’s Personnel Security Program
What Federal Applicants Should Know about Polygraph Tests
US polygraphs way beyond tests, close to unlawful interrogation
Based upon these public resources, I have written down some principles for innocent people who might receive false positives and are hence interrogated.

Why the CIA’s Polygraph Program should be eliminated
1. Innocent people who are trustworthy, loyal, of good conduct and highly qualified can and do make false confessions. Why?

Innocent people can be placed under so much psychological pressure and stress, that they exaggerate the severity of their conduct or say something false and incriminating about themselves in order to satisfy their interrogators and be free to leave. (See: False Confessions)
Under the right conditions and with the heavy use of interrogation tactics and psychological manipulation, innocent people can begin to believe that they are guilty of conduct that they have actually not committed. (See: Internalized False Confessions)
2. It violates our Fourth Amendment Right to Privacy. If an applicant “fails” the polygraph he is given only two options: either he can walk out the door and lose the job offer, or he must submit himself to an excruciating session of interrogation where he must disclose his most personal and private conduct. The polygraph post-test amounts to psychological rape.

Principles to keep in mind
1. No one is rejected simply based upon not being successful with the polygraph exam.
Note: By “not being successful/failing” the polygraph, I only mean the polygraph detecting areas of concern to the polygrapher. Polygraphers give applicants, who do not show physiological reactions, the benefit of a doubt and give them a “pass.”

2. The polygraph is not able to detect lies, it only measures physiological reactions to specific questions. They have burden to prove that the rising of the physiological reactions correlates only with lying.

3. The CIA uses the polygraph to assist the adjudicator in making adjudicative decisions by obtaining confessions of personal conduct that they could not know simply based upon the SF-86 background check.

4. Keep in mind the top 3 principles, and do not trust the polygrapher. Their only objective is to elicit unfavorable information from you by means of psychological manipulation and deceit.

How to “pass” it
1. Do not say anything that the polygrapher and adjudicator could use against you to deny you your security clearance. Whatever you say can and will be used against you. Treat the polygraph interview as a job interview. (See:13 adjudicative guidelines.)//

To answer your questions:

1. When and where (dulles discovery?) did your CIA  poly take place?

Yes, I took my polygraph at the dulles discovery building here: http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/ciau-campus/ciau-campus.htm

I went up stairs into the polygraph/pre-employment procedure floor where I signed in and went into the waiting room near those stairs. They played a polygraph introduction video which described the polygraph as a calm and peaceful process. After the video played, that's when all the polygraphers came and took the applicants one by one to be polygraphed.

2. What exactly did they make you confess to? Was it viewing illegal material online, what type of material?

-they made me confess to illegal pornographic material. I was interrogated so intensively that I began having false memories and believing them to be true. The adjudicators also requested a meeting with me as well and they interrogated me even further. The questions they asked me I thought were inappropriate. One adjudicator asked me what ethnicities I had sexual attraction towards.

3. Did you get that letter saying you were denied access to classified info?
Yes, I received a Statement of Reasons about 2 months latter. This exact same one:  http://www.nationalsecuritylaw.org/files/received/CIA/Security_info-contractor_denials_%28ICI%29.pdf


4. Did they make you sign a piece of paper regarding your confession?

Fortunately, not.

Maybe I am "another cia reject"...or maybe not.  ;-)

The adjudicators wanted to meet with you as well?  Wow, scary.  I never met the adjudicators.  I just got my security denial letters with their names signed on it, and then them signing letters denying my appeals.  I received the same letter that you linked above.  Yes, I also signed in upstairs (2nd Floor) in the Dulles Discovery Bldg, first name only, we watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4blyf5lTK6s

Then the polygraphers come grab their victims.  Sad to hear that they made you talk about your porn habits.  I was asked a leading indirect question about looking at porn and I replied "hell yeah, I look at porn!  Only at home though".  If they would have asked for more, I would have told them I prefer the softcore genre, curvy women naked in public and things like that. lol.

You'll get through this.  The good thing is now you know how the poly works and you can easily pass it next time.  Just deny all their accusations, don't confess, and relax and think of other things (mental countermeasures works great), and you'll be fine.  I lied my ass off on another later poly that I took elsewhere and passed with ease.

My advice would be exactly the same as that indicated in the other responses.

Don't bother to appeal, and also don't bother to apply again, until at least your 130th birthday!  lol ;D

wrote on Mar 30^th, 2015 at 2:34am:

. Did you get that letter saying you were denied access to classified info? Yes, I received a Statement of Reasons about 2 months latter. This exact same one:  http://www.nationalsecuritylaw.org/files/received/CIA/Security_info-contractor_d...

Who is this as*hole, Cecilia Elgin, whose name appears on the rejection notice?  I see that she has one of those many anonymous Agency PO Box addresses found all over Northern VA! ::)

wrote on Mar 14^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

It takes 2 years. And your appeal will be denied.  You'll be given one more chance to appeal to someone higher up, and that appeal will also be denied.  At that point the letter they send you will say something like "this is our final correspondence with you".  When I did it, I chose not to waste money on a lawyer and an in-person appearance.  I just wrote an appeal letter and moved on.  I was surprised to get the certified letter two years later from the good ol' agency. Care to share your story?  Why was your clearance denied?  Did you polygraph and do your 3-day processing at the CIA Dulles Discovery Building in Chantilly VA?

When I was wasting my time going through the whole idiotic process, back in 1979, these things were all still being done at "Headquarters". >:(

wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 3:02am:

I appealed my CIA clearance denial last January 2014 by responding to the SOR. Does any know how long this appeal process will take?

Don't hold your  breath! :)

It is 1/22/2016, and I still haven't heard back from the agency yet. I received the letter they stating they received my response to SOR on 1/2014. I was denied a clearance in 10/2013.

wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:20am:

It is 1/22/2016, and I still haven't heard back from the agency yet. I received the letter they stating they received my response to SOR on 1/2014. I was denied a clearance in 10/2013.

Have you tried writing your Congressman ?

wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 2:20am:

It is 1/22/2016, and I still haven't heard back from the agency yet. I received the letter they stating they received my response to SOR on 1/2014. I was denied a clearance in 10/2013.

The Agency isn't noted for its promptness in responding to inquiries of that nature. ;D

to date, the cia hasn't replied back

ptrckhsu, write another letter to the person who you appealed to.  It is probably some Senior Adjudicator in the DC area.  If you write another letter checking on your status, you should get a reply within a week or two.  Unfortunately, using snail mail is the only way to contact these people.  My appeal took 2 years before I heard anything a few years back.  Maybe more people are appealing their polygraph failures and there is a backlog now? 

What sucks for you is that from your previous posts, they have you recorded on audio and video confessing to viewing illegal porn.  So you don't stand much of a change winning your appeal.  But at least you are on record opposing the polygraph with the rest of us.

I have already written two letters to the senior adjudicator personally. He hasn't responded to either.

...and as I've said before ad nauseum: just don't hold your breath!  "You ain't got nothin' comin' "   lol ;D

And if they never respond back to me, then that's basically a clearance denial? But if I don't hear back, then how will I know when I can reapply to another agency?

You can still reapply to another agency.  You just can't reapply to the CIA specifically while you are going through the appeal.  If the new agency, or job, is nice enough, they will still sponsor your security clearance.  When they do your background check and see this glitch from the CIA, they can still move forward and adjudicate it.  However, it is up to your new agency to do so.  If you are unlucky, the agency/job may not even consider you because of this red flag and will just move on to another candidate who has no issues.  Most government agencies and big name contractor jobs will still sponsor you for a security clearance.  Most small private sector jobs that want you to already have a clearance will bypass you.  Just be honest.  Your life isn't over.  Forget about the CIA.  Fuck them.  You can still have a good career.

CIA Reject,

Thanks a lot for the encouragement.

//However, it is up to your new agency to do so.  If you are unlucky, the agency/job may not even consider you because of this red flag and will just move on to another candidate who has no issues.//

I would hope that the other agency doesn't read the SOR though. The allegations the CIA made against me were false and some of which they manipulated me to confess to. I just wanted to leave the interrogation room and give them what they wanted.

wrote on Mar 14^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

It takes 2 years. And your appeal will be denied.  You'll be given one more chance to appeal to someone higher up, and that appeal will also be denied.  At that point the letter they send you will say something like "this is our final correspondence with you".

I wonder what would happen if, attached to the appeal, were a polygraph report, with charts from a qualified and recognized polygrapher, disputing the previous results?

Ex Member wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2016 at 7:47pm:

wrote on Mar 14th, 2015 at 7:48am: It takes 2 years. And your appeal will be denied.  You'll be given one more chance to appeal to someone higher up, and that appeal will also be denied.  At that point the letter they send you will say something like "this is our final correspondence with you". I wonder what would happen if, attached to the appeal, was a polygraph report, with charts from a qualified and recognized polygrapher, disputing the previous results?

Extra special blacklisting, I suspect.

I don't know if another job or agency can see the SOR.  I doubt it.  What they will see when they run your clearance background check, when they check all the clearance databases with your SSN, is an "Incident Report" from OGA...or Other Government Agency...which everyone knows is CIA.  The details probably won't be there.  That new job/agency will either ask you about this and this is when you provide the details so they can still adjudicate your clearance with them, or not even bother and just tell you something like "you are no longer being considered" or "we selected another candidate". 

Thanks for the helpful information. Ok, so this would be at the first step of the background investigation process, they won't proceed to conduct background investigation interviews of employers and friends until they've decided to continue the investigation process despite the incident report?

The security clearance process contains several steps, check Wikipedia for details, but the order of those steps may vary.  It will not start until you get a job offer, or a conditional job offer of employment (COE).  Most government agencies like the CIA will first give you an interview with your prospective office and then issue a COE if the office likes you.  Then the security folks will step in and the polygraph is first, along with psych, medical, and drug testing, all over a 3 day period.  If you fail the poly, they don't even bother with the rest of the security clearance process.  You are rejected right there, COE rescinded, game over.  It is cheaper to polygraph applicants than to run the top secret background check. I hear the NSA may do the poly and background check concurrently.

If you apply for another job that requires a clearance, one of two things may happen.  They may have you fill out a pre-clearance survey as part of your initial job application to assure them you can get a clearance.  That survey may include a question like "have you ever had a security clearance/access revoked, suspended, or denied"?  You are to answer truthfully, and when you answer "yes", they will toss your application in the garbage.  No chance to explain yourself.  They want a candidate with no issues so they don't waste time and money on trying to clear someone who may not get cleared.

Or, they may interview you and hire you and make you sign a form that says you must get a security clearance within the first year on the job or your employment can be terminated.  So if you get hired, and you never get your clearance, and the security folks see that Incident Report (IR) from OGA in your file, they will ask you "What is taking so long? Is there something you wish to tell us about this IR".  After you explain yourself and the company/agency gets tired of waiting on your clearance to be adjudicated after a year, you are fired.  But at least you got a paycheck for a year!

An IR in your clearance file, whether from a failed polygraph or an arrest, when you are not currently employed with a job that needs a clearance, is a big red flag.  You are in a tough situation.  The IR cannot be adjudicated until some company/agency sponsors you for a job-needed clearance.  However, the catch is that not many companies/agencies want to waste money on sponsoring a prospective employee for a clearance who has an IR in his/her file because the company/agency does not know how severe that IR is or how long it will take to resolve!  You are now a reject in the national security community.  You are a red-headed-bastard-gay-stepchild that nobody wants.

You'll just have to seek and find one of the select few agencies/companies who will hire you and sponsor you for a clearance, despite the IR that the CIA put in your file because of the stupid polygraph.

//You are a red-headed-bastard-gay-stepchild that nobody wants.//

Well that just sucks then.

wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

//You are a red-headed-bastard-gay-stepchild that nobody wants.// Well that just sucks then.

"What a revoltin' development this is!"

Chester A. Riley

wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 10:14pm:

//You are a red-headed-bastard-gay-stepchild that nobody wants.// Well that just sucks then.

It does suck, and it ain't going to change in our lifetimes either, I'm afraid.
One factor in your favour:  The CIA is a law unto itself with respect to its employment selection process.  Thus, you may still have a chance at a security clearance at another three-letter agency.  (Such other clearance won't let you into Langley to sightsee, however!  lol)
Also, as I've said many times already on this board:  It ain't just the polygraph, it's also the whole Agency BI process that stinks! :o

Ex Member wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2016 at 7:47pm:

wrote on Mar 14th, 2015 at 7:48am: It takes 2 years. And your appeal will be denied.  You'll be given one more chance to appeal to someone higher up, and that appeal will also be denied.  At that point the letter they send you will say something like "this is our final correspondence with you". I wonder what would happen if, attached to the appeal, were a polygraph report, with charts from a qualified and recognized polygrapher, disputing the previous results?

I'd say that you'd just be wasting your efforts and $$$ !  Believe me, speaking from experience, the whole CIA application process (including, but not limited to the polygraph) just ain't worth wasting time dealing with! :(

wrote on Apr 25^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

The security clearance process contains several steps, check Wikipedia for details, but the order of those steps may vary.  It will not start until you get a job offer, or a conditional job offer of employment (COE).  Most government agencies like the CIA will first give you an interview with your prospective office and then issue a COE if the office likes you.  Then the security folks will step in and the polygraph is first, along with psych, medical, and drug testing, all over a 3 day period.  If you fail the poly, they don't even bother with the rest of the security clearance process.  You are rejected right there, COE rescinded, game over.  It is cheaper to polygraph applicants than to run the top secret background check. I hear the NSA may do the poly and background check concurrently. If you apply for another job that requires a clearance, one of two things may happen.  They may have you fill out a pre-clearance survey as part of your initial job application to assure them you can get a clearance.  That survey may include a question like "have you ever had a security clearance/access revoked, suspended, or denied"?  You are to answer truthfully, and when you answer "yes", they will toss your application in the garbage.  No chance to explain yourself.  They want a candidate with no issues so they don't waste time and money on trying to clear someone who may not get cleared. Or, they may interview you and hire you and make you sign a form that says you must get a security clearance within the first year on the job or your employment can be terminated.  So if you get hired, and you never get your clearance, and the security folks see that Incident Report (IR) from OGA in your file, they will ask you "What is taking so long? Is there something you wish to tell us about this IR".  After you explain yourself and the company/agency gets tired of waiting on your clearance to be adjudicated after a year, you are fired.  But at least you got a paycheck for a year! An IR in your clearance file, whether from a failed polygraph or an arrest, when you are not currently employed with a job that needs a clearance, is a big red flag.  You are in a tough situation.  The IR cannot be adjudicated until some company/agency sponsors you for a job-needed clearance.  However, the catch is that not many companies/agencies want to waste money on sponsoring a prospective employee for a clearance who has an IR in his/her file because the company/agency does not know how severe that IR is or how long it will take to resolve!  You are now a reject in the national security community.  You are a red-headed-bastard-gay-stepchild that nobody wants. You'll just have to seek and find one of the select few agencies/companies who will hire you and sponsor you for a clearance, despite the IR that the CIA put in your file because of the stupid polygraph.

Another point to be aware of:  If  an applicant has ever lived or studied abroad, the Agency will have its valiant "stations" in the foreign country in which the applicant resided check their "criminal, security, and counterintelligence" files for any derogatory references concerning that applicant.   
This I know from actual experience. ::)

Well I'm still waiting for my day in court....yes now going on 2 years here soon.  Yes I hired a lawyer who specializes in this and going through the hoops there.  But after reading things here I wonder if it's really worth all the treasure and time.  Yes I had the 4 hr in a small room with 2 people working me  over.  One which was called a scribe (More likely trainee) ....what's worse is they started to interrogate me on the phone before even coming in.  All this from a miss date on the form to begin with.  I like how they went out of the room several times and I said Hi to the camera.....I knew they were watching.  Any ways ...after having one poly and then quickly getting another...yes they made me wait the entire weekend I didn't pass.....I got the good cop and I knew I would get the broom Hilda bad one the next....the only thing I regret is I didn't get to say how much I wanted to shove the polygraph machine up her ass!!!  So do I continue with this show court or ditch it....and I've been told by my lawyer that I would be denied no matter what job I went for unless I had this "Come to Jesus" moment.....Oh and by the way...I'm sure they are looking at everything on here.

wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 5:35pm:

I wonder if it's really worth all the treasure and time

From my experience, I'd say that you would indeed be wasting your time and money.  The CIA is a law unto itself when it comes to personnel and security matters.  Even if you have, in fact, "survived" the polygraph (which you'll never be able to find out one way or another), there is then the obstacle course (or Russian roulette) of the lifestyle BI.  Once a derogatory decision has been made with respect to your application, you are unlikely to be reconsidered for employment until after your 120th birthday. ;D

Wandersmann wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 2:17pm:

wrote on Jan 23rd, 2016 at 2:20am: It is 1/22/2016, and I still haven't heard back from the agency yet. I received the letter they stating they received my response to SOR on 1/2014. I was denied a clearance in 10/2013.                     Have you tried writing your Congressman ?

That would be just another waste of time.  (Been there, done that) ::)

Ex Member wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2016 at 7:47pm:

wonder what would happen if, attached to the appeal, were a polygraph report, with charts from a qualified and recognized polygrapher, disputing the previous results?

You would have just wasted a lot of your money for nothing! ;D

Ex Member wrote on Apr 27^th, 2016 at 3:17am:

What a revoltin' development this is!"

Try scanning your resume to:  info@svr.gov.ru    ;D

2 to 3 more months and it will have been 3 years since my clearance denial and appeal. The CIA not only wrongfully accused me of wrongdoing for which I am innocent, but they violated my security clearance due process rights of right to a reasonable timely process. I don't expect to hear back from them at all. The CIA is filled with so much fear of We the people, that they need to resort bullying, unlawful interrogation and violation of due process to feel safe and hide their secrets.

That is an unusually long time.  The CIA probably won't move any faster  unless you get a lawyer, which would be expensive, and may or may not be worth it since most CIA appeals are just denied again anyway.  This is strange.  I wonder how long other polygraph victims of the CIA had to wait on their appeals lately. 

ptrck123 wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 10:34pm:

violated my security clearance due process rights of right to a reasonable timely process. I don't expect to hear back from them at all. The CIA is filled with so much fear of W

When I was naive enough to apply to the CIA for their summer internship program, back in 1979, one of their application papers stated that "employment by the Agency is not a right upon which anyone can insist".

I think that pretty well sums it all up.  I don't know if their current application materials contain that statement, but I would think that attitude still prevails among the jerks at the Offices of Personnel and Security.
Don't waste your time and money dealing with such idiotic jerks! :o

ptrck123 wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 10:34pm:

2 to 3 more months and it will have been 3 years since my clearance denial and appeal. The CIA not only wrongfully accused me of wrongdoing for which I am innocent, but they violated my security clearance due process rights of right to a reasonable timely process. I don't expect to hear back from them at all. The CIA is filled with so much fear of We the people, that they need to resort bullying, unlawful interrogation and violation of due process to feel safe and hide their secrets.

Of course -- that is exactly what keeps the CIA held in such awe by the naive American public. :(

I had a feeling the appealing to the CIA might be a waste of time.  I was told by my lawyer if it was the NSA...he said NO WAY....But because the CIA deals with people OK.....Then he got my files from the agency and when he read one part he was like "were fucked"  and then came up with the only way out is for you to have this come to Jesus moment and I think he was basically telling me when the current job I had with a clearance he told me  you might want to start working else where was a big Que.  Just that my father worked for the bastards in the past and it's more of a thing for him that I clear my name.  I told him I would NEVER work for those people ever and the look of sadness on his face I'll never forget.  My question is if I pull the plug on this appeal stuff what do I do in the future when someone says have you been denied a clearance and you say yes.  I expect never to apply ever again for any clearance job with the Agency blacklist on you...even DoD or some other 3 letter agency.  Or even better...move out of the hypocritical DC area and start over.

Hey buddy, don't fret. You will not win your CIA appeal, stop waiting and move on.  You may be blacklisted from the CIA, but that's only the CIA! You can still get clearance from another agency. I know people that have done it. If another agency sees your file and asks about the illegal porn, as you mentioned earlier in this thread, just tell them it is not true and you were tricked and coerced into that false confession.  The silly polygraph game is getting exposed for what it is and security clearance folks know that it is by no means accurate. So yes, you can still get another security clearance. The CIA is in a world of their own.  They don't even use the online e-Qip for the SF86 form because they are scared of OPM hacks. They make applicants fill out the SF86 by hand, mail it in, so some data entry secretary at CIA can enter your clearance info into their own internal system that isn't connected to the internet.

wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 11:37am:

I expect never to apply ever again for any clearance job with the Agency blacklist on you...even DoD or some other 3 letter agency.  Or even better...move out of the hypocritical DC area and start over.

Yes, the fact that the CIA is a law unto itself works very much to your benefit when applying to other federal agencies, since the Agency doesn't give a damn about what other "three-letter" bodies you contact.  A clearance from another agency don't get you into Langley for a visit anyway.

Actually moving from the DC area isn't that bad an idea at all.   It will be so much less expensive elsewhere, and you'll avoid having to travel long distances to get anywhere!  A clearance from another agency won't admit you to Langley in any case :)

wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 2:38pm:

So yes, you can still get another security clearance. The CIA is in a world of their own.  They don't even use the online e-Qip f

Yes, exactly.  The fact that they are off in their own little cloud will be beneficial to you when applying to other agencies.  The Agency doesn't give a damn, since a security clearance from another three-letter racket don't mean sh*t to the nice folks in Langley. ;D

wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 11:37am:

if it was the NSA...he said NO WAY....But because the CIA deals with people OK

What exactly did your attorney mean by that?  lol ::)

wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 2:38pm:

You will not win your CIA appeal, stop waiting and move on.

Very good advice!

As I understand it, "security clearance lawyers"  are most helpful if you are already in a position somewhere, and you become required to obtain a clearance at some later point.  If you are then denied that clearance for your EXISTING employment, you do have some legal recourse.

As it was explained to me once by such an attorney, there isn't much that can be done for mere, lowly applicants. :-?   

wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 11:37am:

I expect never to apply ever again for any clearance job with the Agency blacklist on you...even DoD or some other 3 letter agency.  Or even better...move out of the hypocritical DC area and start over.

Yes, the fact that the CIA is a law unto itself is very much to your benefit when applying to other federal agencies, since the Agency doesn't give a damn about what other "three-letter" bodies you contact.

Actually moving from the DC area isn't that bad an idea at all.   It will be so much less expensive elsewhere, and you'll avoid having to travel long distances in interminable traffic over the Beltway or I-66 to get anywhere! :)

wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 10:49pm:

I wonder how long other polygraph victims of the CIA had to wait on their appeals lately.

Of course, how would you ever know if it was in fact the polygraph that disqualified you?  It might have just been some nasty gossip gleaned during the BI from a coworker at some part-time job that you might have held back when you were in high school or college.  Don't forget that nasty comments are inevitably weighed far more  heavily than positive ones, and that information from "developed" informants (ones that you didn't list or authorize as references) is considered much more credible than anything that your listed references might have to say. ::)

xenonman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 6:19pm:

A clearance from another agency don't get you into Langley for a visit anyway.

xenonman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 6:19pm:

A clearance from another agency won't admit you to Langley in any case :)

Actually, this is not exactly true.  A clearance from another agency CAN get you into CIA Headquarters and other buildings.  It is well known that the U.S. Department of State is used as a cover for many CIA Officers abroad, where the CIA Officers work under the disguise of Foreign Service Officers, a.k.a. U.S. Diplomats.  In fact, when you join the Foreign Service with the U.S. Department of State, your orientation will include a trip to the CIA where they will tell the real Foreign Service Officers this.  They may even reveal if any CIA Officers have been planted into that Foreign Service Orientation Class!  If you search the internet, you can find some Foreign Service Orientation schedules that show the CIA Visit on there.  NSA staff can get into CIA as well with their clearance as well.  In just about all cases, visitors need to have a visitor's request in from someone that works at CIA, but they can get in with another agency's clearance.

wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2016 at 9:28pm:

In just about all cases, visitors need to have a visitor's request in from someone that works at CIA, but they can get in with another agency's clearance.

Correct, and the visitors to Langley will have to get an "escort required" badge. ::)

I'm of course aware that Agency scum generally hide behind Foreign Service cover.  I was surprised to learn of the fact that the Agency will disclose the identity of their employees to Foreign Service classes.  :-X

Well the lawyer finally called after 2.5 years.  Said they like to have my hearing in June.   But it will cost another 7 grand...  I told him I'm going to cut my loses and go no further.  I like how I started to say I was going to pull the plug and he came down to 5 grand.  LOL....And he mentioned applying for an appeal after the hearing....I was like...Ya that's a waste of money.   So after a weekend of thinking I'm just going to have him write me a paragraph or more of how to explain my denial on any future application.  I mean he told me we were fucked months ago and it's mitigation/damage control now....basically showing I'm still a nice person and I don't do anything that I was denied for.   Well it's been over 5 years at this point.  My only issue is that once I'm denied is it from that point I can't apply to any 3 letter place for a year???  Is it from that time I have to wait 5 years??  When I was denied a clearance I thought it was the end of the world and my money making power.  But that's not the case.  Ya you can make more money with a clearance...but it's not necessary and not the end of the world. 

wrote on May 14^th, 2018 at 1:23pm:

Well the lawyer finally called after 2.5 years.  Said they like to have my hearing in June.   But it will cost another 7 grand...  I told him I'm going to cut my loses and go no further.  I like how I started to say I was going to pull the plug and he came down to 5 grand.  LOL....And he mentioned applying for an appeal after the hearing....I was like...Ya that's a waste of money.   So after a weekend of thinking I'm just going to have him write me a paragraph or more of how to explain my denial on any future application.  I mean he told me we were fucked months ago and it's mitigation/damage control now....basically showing I'm still a nice person and I don't do anything that I was denied for.   Well it's been over 5 years at this point.  My only issue is that once I'm denied is it from that point I can't apply to any 3 letter place for a year???  Is it from that time I have to wait 5 years??  When I was denied a clearance I thought it was the end of the world and my money making power.  But that's not the case.  Ya you can make more money with a clearance...but it's not necessary and not the end of the world.

Are you ptrck, the OP?

You can get into another agency with a clearance denial on record.  I know, because I have done it.  Literally just a few years after the first denial based on the polygraph, I was TS/SCI cleared into another agency.  I had no serious issues on records other than false accusations on a polygraph, which was not a concern to my new agency who did not even administer polygraphs themselves.  Just apply to other jobs and go for it, but do not expect to ever get into the CIA, or any other agency where  you failed the polygraph before, even if 10 years have passed.  I know, I am speaking from experience.  You are blacklisted for life from that agency.  By the way, I have since quit government service to do my own thing.

Regarding the appeal, those are just legal formalities to make you feel better.  Most appeals are denied, and the process drags on for so long that most applicants give up or move on, and don't care to spend the money.  That is the goal of these agencies.  It is rare to beat the U.S. federal government in court.  VERY RARE. 

I personally have gone from patriot to rogue.  I am sick of the government control and security clearance bullshit.  I have moved on with my life and will never again give a shit about U.S. government employment.  With my background, computer hacking, there is tons of money to be made and services to provide around the world without sitting on some limited GS payscale and worrying about my clearance all the time.  Criminals and malicious foreign governments will pay me more than the U.S. government ever will, and I know how to hide my tracks and money to avoid law enforcement coming down on me.  Besides, I am out of country anyway.  I can get paid from my laptop in any random part of the world. I'd much rather fuck foreign girls, do some drugs, break some laws, not report anything, and live a wild life until I die.  The U.S. government can die slow for all I care.  I respect Snowden, Wikileaks, Anonymous, and other anti-government people.

Life is short.  Fuck tyranny, oppression, and government control.  Be free, get paid, and grab your balls when you do so Uncle Sam can know the meaning of fuck you.

Well back again after some time and the decision came in.....Drum roll please.  Denied.  It took pretty much 4 years from being walked out HQ to receiving the letter.   They said I could appeal that...LOL...ya right they have made their decision.  Don't bother wasting more money or time.  As far as I'm concerned I never want to work for "Those" people again.  The only misgiving I have is if in the future I try for a clearance at DOD or some other agency....am I forever blacklisted???

Peety....nope not those guys.  Like you I'd much rather make my money else where and when you complete morons like Dumps family getting clearances at the drop of a hat you know the system is a rigged one.   More power to you...I'd rather fuck foreign girls as well and live life!  Wish I was out of the country!!

wrote on Jun 21^st, 2019 at 3:49pm:

Wish I was out of the country!!

what are you waiting for?  someone to kiss you goodbye?  don't delay, leave today.  May I recommend North Korea or Iran as a destination.  And don't let the boarding gate door hit you in the ass on your way out.

just_me_again wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2019 at 10:31am:

I vehemently oppose the polygraph and I am willing to teach anyone, even tell the world, how to beat it.

I recommend you be careful. If the government perceives you as a threat, they will find some way to bring you down.