Here on AntiPolygraph.org, we have often likened polygraphy to a crapshoot, for example in the following poster (click here to see all our posters):



Ironically, it turns out that the American Polygraph Association also chose a crapshoot motif in designing a "challenge coin" for its 2006 annual seminar in Las Vegas, Nevada. The image below is from the cover of the APA magazine:



How appropriate! Of course, when polygraphers roll the dice, they're playing with someone else's future.

Also, the dice on the coin are crooked. The numbers on opposite sides of a legitimate die add up to seven, but on the bottom die you can see a six and a one. Subliminal message?

Qengho,

That's an astute observation! Polygraph operators have a tradition of cheating at cards (pretending to divine what card an examinee drew from a gimmicked deck in an attempt to convince the examinee of the polygraph's powers), so perhaps it's fitting that they put false dice on their challenge coin.

[smiley=shocked.gif]

Do you really think they made a conscious decision to use those particular numbers on the dice, or is it more likely that it was done by the company who made the coins?

Phillip F Queeg wrote on Nov 8^th, 2008 at 9:23pm:

Do you really think they made a conscious decision to use those particular numbers on the dice, or is it more likely that it was done by the company who made the coins?

There is no way of knowing. Still, however it happened, it's very fitting...

I think the APA is responsible for the design of its own challenge coin.

[smiley=rolleyes.gif]

I have to chuckle each time I see their motto, "Dedicated to Truth."

Try posting a true story on their message board that is not flattering to the polygraph.  They are so dedicated to truth they will delete the post and ban you in no time at all.

Sarge, are you a member of APA because it doesn't look like non-members can post at all . If you cant post, How did you get banned?

Then there are boards like "The Polygraph Place" that won't allow any criticism of the polygraph.  If you do criticize the polygraph, you are called a "ranter" and dispatched.

The real test of an argument is not being afraid of criticism.  They don't want the facts to come out.  They want to keep people ignorant, and to   blindly believe in the accuracy of their "black box".

TC

Phillip F Queeg wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 4:03am:

Sarge, are you a member of APA because it doesn't look like non-members can post at all . If you cant post, How did you get banned?

What makes you think I was banned from their web site?

If a poster at PolygraphPlace.com questions the accuracy of the polygraph they are banned and their posts are deleted.  It is not an uncommon occurrence.  I never said it happened to me.

Didn't the APA web site itself formerly allow non-members to post on their message board?  Since they have the following posted on their site under "news":

Quote:

Various Forums now available in the Private Member Section in APA News Headline Did you know that there are now private forums available in the private member section?  Current topics include general discussion, starting a business, countermeasures, testifying and pcsot.&

That would certainly seem to confirm that there used to be public and private forums.

Sarge when you said "Try posting a true story on their message board that is not flattering to the polygraph.  They are so dedicated to truth they will delete the post and ban you in no time at all."  wasn't everyone talking about APA?   That's why I thought you were talking about and APA forum. Then you change and start talkiing about Polygraphplace.com. Then you you go back to talking about APA website and say.  "That would certainly seem to confirm that there used to be public and private forums."

I don't know if they had another kind of board in the past. So, were you just guessing about APA having a Public Posting board and banning people?

On your comment about wiki's I couldn't find the origional post when I started writing this one but I think that George said the post was vandalized which made it sound like someone was breaking the rules. I was just trying to say that since changing wiki's is allowed by anyone then vandalized probably isn't a good term because it accusses someone of doing something wrong.

To the best of my knowledge and recollection, the American Polygraph Association has never had a message board open to the general public. Some years back, they had a message board that was discontinued, but I believe that like the present one, it was for members only.

The PolygraphPlace.com forum is pretty much the only polygrapher-operated polygraph discussion forum, and it is indeed heavily censored. Polite, on-topic posts offering critical views of polygraphy are indeed deleted and the posters banned. I was banned, and so was Dr. Richardson. I think it's clear that polygraphers do not want to see open, honest, public discussion of their practices. Understandably so, considering that polygraphy's survival depends on widespread public ignorance of such.

The APA is not "dedicated to truth." It is dedicated to protecting its members' bottom line. That's why they countenance a past-president and life member fraudulently passing himself off as a Ph.D., why alleged fraud by an APA-accredited polygraph school got swept under the rug, and why the APA considers a member's bearing false witness against me during a polygraph examination recorded for evidentiary purposes to be none of its business.

So you are saying that when sarge said "Try posting a true story on their message board that is not flattering to the polygraph.  They are so dedicated to truth they will delete the post and ban you in no time at all."  while he was making  fun at the APA coin that said "Dedicated to Truth, he wasn't telling the truth either and he was just trying to shift my question to the other bulletin board to avoid admitting that he didn't tell the truth about the APA website?

If you don't like polygrapers and don't say nice things about them, like accussing them of cheating at cards and lying, why would you expect them to say nice things about you?

I mean I get it that you are against lie detectors and they are for them, but can't you try to make your point wuthout getting mad or trying to misleed people?

Mr Queeg

Read the posts for which Sancho Panza was banned and decide for yourself if this board is really open to free uncensored discussion, or just to the views of one side.

Pail rider

Why is it when I ask George a question about what he said about vandalizing a wiki, sarge responds and when I ask sarge a question about the truth about what he said on APA banning people George answers?

Quote:

I mean I get it that you are against lie detectors and they are for them, but can't you try to make your point wuthout getting mad or trying to misleed people?

Well, right off hand, I'd say somebody who gets banned for making wild accusations against the board owner, then goes and vandalizes an on-line article he had written is guilty of that.  Sure sign of a cowardly cur.

TC

Quote:

Read the posts for which Sancho Panza was banned and decide for yourself if this board is really open to free uncensored discussion, or just to the views of one side.

He accused the board owner of translating his book, "The lie behind the lie detector", into arabic and farsi for islamist terrorists.

That is slander.  

Of course, polygraph operators slander people all the time.  Translating for terrorists, murdering your daughter...etc.  It's all part of their job description.  And there is a pattern on the part of chart gazers who come to post here of resorting to slander when they are losing an argument.  Remember TLG4U (Patrick Coffey)?

GM only lets them continue to post here so the lurking public can see what polygraph operators are really like.

In this case, a guy who slander's the board owner, get's banned, goes and then vandalizes the board owner's on-line article, under another lame literary alias.  Childish!  But amusing nonetheless.

TC

P.S.  Actually, GM let him stay for quite awhile even after slandering him.  So, let's see, we have a PRO-polygraph board that will ban you for politely posting anything negative about the polygraph, and then this ANTI-polygraph board which will let you test the board's patience to the point of slander.  And you're saying WE are censors?  We are misleading?  Isn't that precious!

I still don't get this, I ask George a question, sarge answers, I and sarge a question george ansers, I ask george another question and then TM answers.

you guys are starting to sound like some kind of gang or something.

I'm just asking questions, Why cant you answer them yourselves?

I dunno.  Maybe that idiot Sancho will answer your question.

Whoops!  Forgot, he can't,  he got banned!   ;D

Oh well......

Be patient.  GM is in Europe, remember there is a time difference.

In the meantime, please enjoy the following link:

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309084369

And please, try not to move your lips while reading it.   :P

TC

Do your lips move while you read or do you have to have somebody read stuff to you?  

I didn't ask you anything, so quit acting like a jerk.

If I want any more of your lip I'll scrape it off my zipper.

Quote:

Do your lips move while you read or do you have to have somebody read stuff to you?   I didn't ask you anything, so quit acting like a jerk. If I want any more of your lip I'll scrape it off my zipper.

Okay  whatever you say.  Say hi to Sancho for us when you see him.  
::)
TC

T.M. Cullen wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 7:04am:

[quote]Do your lips move while you read or do you have to have somebody read stuff to you?   I didn't ask you anything, so quit acting like a jerk. If I want any more of your lip I'll scrape it off my zipper.

Now look here Cap'n, this is an open forum see......and I'll butts in as I sees fit, savvy?

...and we don't talk bout other shipmate's lower parts on this crew.........t'aint that kinda crew, savvy?

Seems yuve come here itch'n fer a fight...  Well heave too ya scurvy dog!   :P

AHHHHRRR!

Black Beard

Phillip F Queeg wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 12:44am:

I still don't get this, I ask George a question, sarge answers, I and sarge a question george ansers, I ask george another question and then TM answers. you guys are starting to sound like some kind of gang or something. I'm just asking questions, Why cant you answer them yourselves?

Phil,

If I may. Who cares who answers the question? There is no requirement for GM, Sarge or anyone else to answer a question this is after all an open forum. Maybe they feel the question has been answered several times before. That of course is a guess on my part.
Phil,we welcome your input here but if your looking for just a fight, you may not get what you want.
We are committed to  educating the public on the truth about Polygraph by exposing the fact that it is not a true science and useless in actually detecting lies, but instead a interrogation tool that in the process of instigating "some" confessions "kills" the credibility and careers  of countless innocent victims.
I hope that this answers some of your questions.

While a vigorous exchange of ideas is encouraged, taunts about lips moving while reading or lips on zippers are inappropriate. Let's all keep it civil.

Just my little way of welcoming Mr Queeg to the board.

TC