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Polygraph and CVSA Forums >> Polygraph Policy >> What happened to all the references to Jack Trimarco ?
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Message started by TheNoLieGuy4U on Feb 28th, 2008 at 4:14am

Title: Re: What happened to all the references to Jack Trimarco ?
Post by TheNoLieGuy4U on Mar 10th, 2008 at 6:38pm
       George,

In response:

I said "Sorry George, you CAN'T have it both ways, even the press knows that in time of war there are limits on the first amendment."  

No, there aren't. The U.S. Constitution doesn't have a "wartime version" of the 1st Amendment, which simply states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

My reply:  Take note George, in the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918 over a thousand persons like you have been convicted, not to mention succeeding acts that followed thereafter in WWII, Korea, Etc..  With national approval, our war time Commander in Chief, George W. Bush, at the outset of the war on terrorism, asked television network executives to refrain from airing video releases from Osama bin Laden fearing coded messages to his followers.  Even front line reporters routinely face access restrictions and daily Pentagon briefings rarely answer all press questions. Do such restrictions violate First Amendment values or do they hold legitimate national security purposes?  You, from foreign soil, and in the company of those who are in fact radical Islamists with whom you associate, do not have our nation’s BEST interests at heart.  The first amendment is best served who put the nation first as a patriot before their own selfish ambition or in your case tunnel vision revenge.    

Polygraph is an undisputed tool of the intelligence community.  It is protected by several acts of legislation regarding export, training, etc.; and you as a former Intelligence Officer knew this at all times.  Your mere desire to participate in a debate about it’s accuracy and utility might be one thing if done here on U.S. Soil, but rather you have attempted to directly compromise it from abroad for the benefit of our nation’s internal criminals and/or enemies, and are among the very few with the technical capability to translate it to the language of our enemies.  Therefore, your attempt to hide behind the first amendment should not be honored by anyone other than the most left wing of Judges; but I grant that you are entitled to a jury of your peers and your day in court.  Merely saying you were trying to "Help" someone is not a defense from the above, as in reality someone of your life experience an education knows that there is / was both a spirit to the oath you took and document(s) you signed about the special role of having been an Intelligence Officer.  

I believe a Federal prosecutor, whether they be from the military or Justice Dept. or both separately in your case, should convene no less than an investigative body in regard to your activity to determine not only the effect of it, but the proper punishment for the attempt.  

Is it not yet clear to you that the intelligence community, of which the polygraph is a long standing contributing member, has not been paralyzed by you attempting to compromise the control / comparison questions.  Despite your banter they have never needed more talent, and the federal school is booked eighteen months in advance with Federal agencies actually competing for seats in it to get such talent.  

You have at your worst become the Patron Saint of Pedophiles, or a brain bar of sorts for those who had an artificial sense of false expectations about receiving a letter of contingency offer of hire vs. a bona fide offer of hire.  As the bible says, many are called, but few are chosen.  Your flock, the unchosen, wallow in their pitty claiming we are somehow lessened by their not being called upon or chosen.  Wisdom on yours and their parts would rather dictate that you need to go to plan B or C  ( or in your case plan H for Holland) and do something else positive with your life.  You “Aniti’s” are a real downer to read here.  

I Said "If a nexus can be made that Al Quada used your work as a reference point, and your intent or result (despite the hollow platitudes of only trying to Help) was to hurt, cripple, maim, lessen, or effect U.S. Intelligence (National or International) then you get body slammed.  I have made my position clear that you are no less than in the same catagory of the very people whom you claimed evaded U.S. Intelligence via Aldrich Ames and others, but they did so for money.  Your betrayal of the U.S. Intel community is more like that of the Rosenbergs who did so as zealots for change, and they were quite properly executed for treason. By the way Treason has no statute of limitations."    

So you actually believe that by publicly telling the truth about polygraphy I have committed treason? And am I to understand that you would be pleased to see me executed for my "speech crime?" Was it not you who not so long ago lectured me:

I've been very clear that you are entitled to a jury of your peers for whatever charges a federal prosecutor, or UCMJ military prosecutor, may deem fit for you.  As you have NOT been fit in honoring your obligation to the intelligence community.  At the very least, I would like to see you forfeit your claim to a military pension for twenty years in the reserves based on your attempted damages inflicted on the intelligence community.  Sedition, treason, espionage are for Judges, Jurys, and court rooms, as I alone am not fit to make that call and bend to the system for that.  I only call'em as I see'em at the sidelines, and apparantly am not alone.

I said before "Guys like you want to ban guys like me and throw out Freedom of expression, Freedom of the press, etc. Guys like me have spent a career sworn to uphold that constitution and its rights for the individual"

This was in response to a poster who asked you to ban me from this site for my minority opinion alone. My desire to be heard here for my contribution is NOT the equal of YOUR acting from foreign soil in assitance to those who would use your sight to, at the very least, cheat the system, and at worst aid an abett he enemies of the USA, a topic you have covered in the Al Queda piece.  By the way, I was not lecturing you on this, but rather a common poster on this.  Get YOUR ego out of it. It wasn't written TO you, but rather was ABOUT such a site, and it's fair role if moderated fairly.  

Actually, the NAS review of the scientific evidence on the polygraph has much in common with the process of peer-review for a scientific journal. It is a critical review by experts with a variety of relevant expertise who had no vested interest in the outcome.

WHAT ??? Ofcourse they, and their scientific breatheran had a vested interest in the outcome !!!!  They, as a group, don't want ANY accountability as the arrogance of their PhD's makes them feel above it all.

Again, none of the NAS panel members were subject to polygraph screening. They were nominated to the panel based on their expertise and lack of conflict of interest. Their names were published on-line in advance, and members of the public were given the opportunity to object to any of the nominees. I am not aware that any objections were raised with regard to any of the panel members.

I accept your point that while the NAS study was going on those panel members were not subject to polygraph at that time.  However, they, their PhD breatheran, are of a pre-disposed mindset that they are above accountability and want to avoid that reality.  That they find the polygraph to be less than 100% is not a surprise to even the pro-polygraph people who accept different rates of accuracy for different types of testing.  The only science which IS 100% is Mathamatics.  You start from a false premise that it MUST be 100% accurate to be used, and clearly underestimate it's value by saying it is at not much better than chance levels, as their are too many mathamatical hand scored charts to argue that point.  Far too much has been made of false positives and/or false negatives on this site when compared to the totality of the whole body of work as a collective contribution, in an attempt to disregard the role and mission of the polygraph professionals.  My point, is that the NAS, as a self appointed body, was NOT the peer review study it claims to be, and rather PhD Psychophysiologist researchers (Non-Polygraph People) are the proper group to have performed such research and/or peer review. NAS was Not free of bias.  

 Would you be an example of the "best and brightest" chosen for polygraph school?

I have NOT held myself up to you as being selected by any government agency as being such or sent by them to a polygraph school.  Only that I have worked in an associated community.  I do however in fairness to you claim bias in that I have seen the real world results of both polygraph testing vs. non-testing in applicant screening.  Also, the advances of the computerized testing being done being far better than the analog test to which you were subjected to.  Also, that the fine professionals in this field like Trimarco and Youngblood all seem to have made incredible contributions to their country or community respectively, whereas you sit on the side lines in another nation bitching about how George did not get to play on the first string team.  But No, you instead went accross the field and have acted as an advisor to the OTHER team in regard to your former team mates play book.  That action doesn't work as fair play in sports, the intelligence community, or in life.  One one thing we can all agree, your actions here, disclosures, and attitude is that of one who is clearly an unfulfilled human being with an irrational fictitious theme of Man vs. Machine, and you now want revenge.  That you cloak that effort in a claim of ideological debate as an academic exists only in your mind, and others do in fact see through it.

 By the way, only those who are fools debate the innocense of the Rosenbergs and how they betrayed this country for their communist / world socialist beliefs; not unlike those who to this day believe Ojay didn't do it.  Such minds of mush are not the material intelligence services and law enforcement are composed of.  Thank God !!!





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