Does anyone have any information about LVMPD's polygraph?  I have only heard bad reviews about it.  I have a friend who works for them and she said that their poly is b.s.  I was told from another person who works for the city of Las Vegas that LVMPD hasn't had good luck with their polygraphs.  I'm not sure what he meant by that.  I do know that their polygraph has allowed more than its share of bad apples to be hired, but I guess that could be said about any department that puts heavy emphasis on the polygraph.  The word I've heard is that they model their hiring procedures around LAPD's.  

My cousin is out there this week testing for them.  I work for a department in Utah and have tried to help my him prepare for our testing process, but he wants to be with a department with a little more action. One of our friends was dq'ed by them a little over a year ago because of his polygraph.  He has lived a very clean life and has never been in any trouble with the law.  He was very upset when it happened.                   He has since been picked up by a medium sized department in Arizona, and he is doing well.   Its really nuts how lie detector tests mess up so many peoples' lives.  I know that LVMPD does their polygraphs before any sort of background check.  I think it should be the other way around.  Better yet, take away the polygraph altogether.    

My friend totally stung his LVMPD polygrapher last year.  He was very worried about his exam before, and after he was bragging about it.  He is now an official LVMPD cop.  How about that.

wrote on Oct 16^th, 2003 at 4:30pm:

My friend totally stung his LVMPD polygrapher last year.  He was very worried about his exam before, and after he was bragging about it.  He is now an official LVMPD cop.  How about that.

I see that your screen name is "U.S. Marine."  I was wondering if the Marines have the job of "Polygraph Examiner."  I have a friend of mine who says his son who is a Sergeant of some kind in the marines, does polygraphs as his job.  I just did not think they trained for that kind of job.  Does the marines believe in the polygraph?

Just wondering.  

 

Wondering

Maybe it's job training for when he gets out. Probably beats guarding the main gate.

Old Navy man

Wondering,

USMC Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) 5822 is "Polygraph Operator."

I took my polygraph with them just a few months ago and was told that I showed deception on the drug questions.  I've never done drugs, but apparently my examiner had a hard time believing me.  I also took and PASSED the LAPD poly a few months before my LVMPD polygraph.   I live in California, and I have talked to other people who have gone through the LVMPD testing process and I have heard other bad stories as well, not necessarily related to polygraph issues.  

I have heard through the police rumor mill that they are losing a lot of strong candidates from their polygraph tests.  Similar to the LAPD situation.  

Before I go any further, I will state that I am an African-American male.  Myself and two friends all tested for LVMPD at the same time.  My two friends are white, they both scored higher and ranked higher than I did.  Neither one was hired and I was. I made admissions to my polygrapher during my exam, which was horrible, that I thought would have ruined my chances of being hired.  I really dont want to go into detail about my polygraph experience.  I do want to mention that one of my friends that tested with me was told he had big problems with theft questions on his polygraph. He obviously failed.  He was never offered a job. My other friend who I tested with was dq'ed for reasons unknown.  When I speak to my friends about the job, I feel embarrassed and even ashamed. I know that they would be good cops.  One of them has decided to stay with his current career as a paramedic. The other is planning on testing for a couple of departments this next year.  I wonder if LVMPD is giving special treatment to minorities, and  they are using polygraphs to get rid of people just to open up slots for more minorities. Again I have to state that I am a minority, so I feel I can openly say this.

Their polygraph is a crap shoot!  The saddest part about it is that some very poor choices are being selected as new recruits because the polygraph wiped out so many more than qualified ones. People need to understand that a polygraph test truly is a role of the dice.  

Spike,

I seriously doubt that the LVMPD would hire you simply because you are an African-American.  You must pass through all the wickets, just like everyone else.  You must have come across very well during the entire hiring process.  Just curious, what did you admit to the polygrapher that was so terrible?  It is very possible that your friends were falsely found to be deceptive during their polygraph experience (nothing new here).  Whatever you did during your polygraph (complete honesty or countermeasures) you either did it right, or were just plain lucky (maybe both).  Be thankful that you got past that hurdle; now drive on!  Congrats!

Kona

Kona

What makes LVMPD different from other cities? Haven't you heard of the hiring quota system or are you just trying to be politically correct? Ever heard of the EEOC? A minority does not have to be qualified for a mandatory hire or promotion. Look at the city of Dallas, Tx. A Black cop, with a criminal background and failed his poly, was hired anyway. He was just fired because he continued to be a bad dude. City, County and State governments are directed to hire based on the ethnic makeup of the population.

Thanks for your replies.  I don't necessarily think I got hired only because I am a minority, but I definately think that it worked to my advantage.  As I stated earlier about my friends not being hired and I was. They were both much higher ranked than I was. As far as my admissions I made during my poly, I don't want to be too specific in details, but I will say that I totally confessed to having used certain drugs that I never mentioned prior to the exam.  When I made the admissions, my examiner told me not to hold my breath on EVER being hired.  He was wrong.

What you have to understand about the hiring process is that you probably weren't even competing with your two white friends. They put you in a class of other African-Americans and those are the people you were competing with. It doesn't matter that your white friends scored higher than you, because your scores weren't being compared to theirs. They compared your's to other African-Amercans only. That way they try to hire the best from every race.  

I see Spike's point. I think its pretty unfair that he gets hired after he made admissions about his drug use while others get the boot because they supposedly had reactions.  I understand affirmative action and how it works, yet to me this is just wrong.  How can a department toss candidates based on their polygraph results when they are letting certain ones slide by when the junk (polygraph) exams tell them these same ones are liars.   Do they or dont they believe in these ridiculous tests?  Spike, no offense to you.

If you understand Affirmative Action then you should know that it doesn't matter if the person is qualified or not. If they have a position open that has to be filled by a minority, they will fill it with the best person they have, qualified or not. So if all applicants from one race have arrest records or have done drugs, then they must choose the applicants that have committed the lesser crimes, so that they can fill the position and comply with the law.

Jack T, thanks for your insight.  That makes me feel a bit better about my situation.

I dont know much about LVMPD's poly, but I have  heard that they mold their hiring structure around LAPD's. If that is true, I don't know if I'll even waste my time applying for them.  I know of several quality departments out there where an applicant does'nt have to deal with b.s. like I have heard is going on in theirs.  I will get my masters degree in January which is when I plan to start testing with a few departments.  I can assure you that LAPD and LVMPD won't be on my list.

I have a few pals that work for Vegas metro and they seem to share the same belief that polygraphers are    
A-holes. I have been playing with the idea of applying to them for a few years, so I did so two weeks ago.  I tested with the other locals and I had the good pleasure of seeing one of the departments poly examiners.  At least thats   what I was told from a few other guys testing.  All I can say is that she seemed like a complete jerk.  As we were all in the hallway waiting to take our test, she walked by looking all pissed off at the world. One of the guys in line said hello to her and she just gave him a dirty look and kept walking.  I always say that if someone hates their job that much           quit.  

sushi chef

That wasn't a "hate my job" look. That was a "power and punitive lust" look. She is not smart enough to realize that not to return a simple hello, is self degredation.

Officer Sean Curd arrested for possession of cocaine and steroids; Det. Joe Kelly suspended for losing a kilo of cocaine; Mark Beckerie fired for transferring his dry cleaning bill to fellow officer; officer Mike Ramirez forced a couple to give each other oral sex as he watched; officer Arthur Sewall forced prostitute to give him oral sex; officers Chris Fisher and Ron Mortenson fired several shots at hispanics on street corner while off duty. All these fine gentlemen are part of the LVMPD. It seems that their polygaph policy is definately keeping the dirty cops out of their department.

Private, let's not forget detective Vinten Hartung who was charged with molesting a 15 year old boy while using alcohol to lure him, and off duty officer Richard Splinter who threatened man by showing his gun to him during an argument at a softball game.  These guys also were part of the Las Vegas police force.  I wonder how they did on their polygraphs.  

I work with women like that.  Sounds like she is just a pissed off miserable human being. What is very sad is that a person that she gives a poly to can make one false move that she doesn't like, and their career as a police officer could very well be ruined.  Its all in the palm of her hands.  

Hopefully they let the good guys in because I will be applying this next round.  :-/

Lawndawg, I am sure LVMPD is hiring many good cops.  However, they have definately hired too many bad ones as well.  The polygraph can be more than partly blamed for this situation. The people that pass their polys are assumed good guys while the ones that dont pass are told to get lost.  This is not smart because its no secret that many people can beat a polygraph exam with or without cheating on the exam.  On the flip side, many innocent people are wrongfully accused as being liars.  I don't think LVMPD is a bad department, I just think it could use some help.  Where else have you considered applying to?

I dont want to throw stones at Las Vegas p.d., but I would venture to say that it rates among the top 5 most corrupt departments in the country.  What does it tell you when the whole city consists of casino based industry. The mayor himself is a former mob defense attorney.  It doent take a Sherock Holmes to figure this out.  

Hawaiian, the primary department I am considering is North Las Vegas; they pay more, but they also use the CVSA.

Whats with all the noise about LVMPD?  I didn't realize that their department is any different than many others in the country.  Maybe some of you guys should post your complaints on formal police message boards.  I dont know why anybody would want to live there anyway. Have you seen it during the daytime?

I have no intention of getting anyone in trouble, but I have to make mention of a Las Vegas cop who just recently got hired who is a complete insult to the badge he will be wearing.  This guy I have known for over 5 years.  He has partied with more drugs than typical rock band. He has worked as a salesman for the last few years and has recently decided to become a cop. Just the kind of police officers I want my tax dollars going  to.  I  dont know how he got hired. That's what made me and a few other people who know him well wonder how he got past his background check.  He must have passed his lie detector test, which doesnt surprise me because he is a slimeball.  

Kathy, why do you think the guy is wrong for passing his polygraph.  Don't you realize how common of an accurance that is.  Maybe he is a slimeball like you say, but it doesnt take a certain type of person to pass or fail a polygraph.  I think more has to do with chance than anything else.

I have been a Las Vegas Metropolitan police officer for nearly 7 years now.  You all can believe when I say that a large majority of us cops here agree that the polygraph in a load of crap.  It is not just the potential new hires that have to be subjected to this nonsense.  I know of a few guys who have had to take them for investigation or promotional reasons.  I also know that there a more than a few of us who have beaten the polygraph as well. Its a situation that I cannot even explain, if so many people know of the shortcomings of these tests, why the Hell are they still being used so strongly?  My little brother will be testing with us soon and the ONLY thing he is worried about is the friggin polygraph, as he knows that its almost as if only the lucky survive it.  For the record, this is a great department, I'm just letting off some steam.  The most ironic part of all this is that I've spoken to one of our poly examiners several times and he has even told me that the tests are only about 70% accurate.  

I am a police officer in Ohio, and  I have just tested for LVMPD awaiting my scores.  I feel very good about moving on the remaining phases including all but the polygraph.  It has been several years since I took a polygraph exam and I am dreading this next one.  See I know that if the examiner doesnt believe me, I am screwed.  No matter what the  damn machine says.  Has anyone seen the ridiculous show on Courttv called Fake out?  All these numnuts who go on the show, many of them law enforcement officers, think they can spot a lie in the behavior of the subject.  They are more often wrong than right.  I think countermeasure use is the smart thing to do.  Why risk it all.  I must mention that the tests can definately be beaten without countermeasures as well.  I know for a fact.  

Speaking of the quality of hired officers in the LVMPD, lets add a couple more to the group of aforementioned winners already listed.  Sergeant Tom Keller investigated for receiveing 15,000 dollars from an adult club owner(Crazyhorse Too); officer David Miller was caught on a casino camera beating a handcuffed man repeatedly in the head, face, and body.  The man sustained a fractured vertabrae; and more recently officer Ryan McCulloch was arrested for his third DUI offense in 18 months, as well as driving a police vehicle with a revoked driver's license.  I could also mention the D.A.R.E. officer who resigned after she tested positive for marijuana, or several other arrogent punks us Las Vegans have to deal with who have been given badges.  

I took their poly and smoked it with flying colors.  As far as the poly examiner goes, he never had a clue. I had to lie about  very minor issue.  I never got offered a position because I was too far down on the rank order.  I am hoping to test with C.H.P. when they start testing again.  They use the voice analysis test, so I'm not sure how to deal with that, but my friend who got on with them a couple of years ago said it was totaly bogus.

I antisipate on taking my polygraph with metro very soon and after reading all these posts I'm more nervous then I was before.  

You are right to be worried.  The polygraph has ruined many people.

I aced my LVMPD poly not once, but twice.  The first time I took it the examiner buzzed right through it and everything was fine. The last time I took it the examiner was a little more thorough, and she was nice.  I used visualization and tongue bite to ensure my passing the test.  Neither time did the examiners have the slightest clue.  So all you nonbelievers in countermeasures, all I can say is they worked for me.

I should be getting my notice any day now for my LVMPD poly.  I am so ready for it to be over with.  My friend took hers a short time ago and she said it was no biggee.  

I'll be taking my LVMPD poly very soon.  I am not nervous yet rather anxious.  I just want it to be over with.  This is my first time to ever experience a lie detector test, but I am fully aware that they are a crap shoot.  My friend whose father is a metro cop for more than 20 years said that he doesn't favor the lie detector tests, but it is an obstacle you have to go through.

Does anyone know when the next LVMPD exam will be given? There's no updated info on their website.

They start their application process again in January.

I would like to let all who read this site know that I failed my Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department's polygraph slightly over a year ago.  The GOOD news is that I just took a polygraph with a police department on the west coast and passed.  Here's the nuttiest part.  I was asked pretty much the same sort of questions regarding issues such as theft, undedected crimes, and drug use.   I answered the same way as I did with my failed polygraph.  My examiner was very nice and actually made me feel comfortable.  He never even mentioned my past failed polygraph, and the entire procedure took about 90 minutes.  As much as I'd like to send LVMPD's background unit my good news, I won't.  

A few short years ago LVMPD was in the hot seat for hiring 147 police officers that were NEVER even given a background investigation.  I'm sure that all of the new hires passed their polygraphs, so the background unit trusted that these individuals were all good choices.     THEY THOUGHT WRONG.   An incident that helped spark this discovery was when one of their officers was charged with homicide.  This same officer was fired from his former job as a Dillards security guard for being too aggressive and combative.  He also failed to mention that he had been previously arrested.  Good job LVMPD for another fine choice as one of your city's finest.  Keep trusting in the polygraphs when you make your hiring decisions.  

LVMPD officer Jon Aaron Brown was charged with possession and use of GHB and ecstasy.  I'm sure he only used after he became a cop, because there is no way he could have lied about his drug use during his polygraph and gotten away with it.  YEAH  RIIIIIGHT!!!!!

So are there any P.D.'s that people would recommend applying to in or around SoCal or vegas?

Metro in January
North Las Vegas in March and Sept
Henderson usually in February

I have a city webpage that links all PD website's employment pages that I will add later.

Incidentally, Metro just made its announcement today:

http://www.lvmpd.com/employment/job_announce_police_recruit.htm

http://www.lvmpd.com/employment/empmenu.htm

People who want to work for a strong department, without excessive bullshit and politics to deal with, should stay away from LVMPD.  

Thanks nOmad for the info ;D

http://www.ci.las-vegas.nv.us/employment/default_479.htm

Las Vegas Metro sucks.  They hire too many subpar recruits (overweight females and guys who don't have the mindset for law enforcement).  If your thinking about applying to Las Vegas area departments, stick to the surrounding areas.  LVMPD talks a big game, but they don't back it up.  I was at a Halloween party where there were several metro cops  who totally trash talked their department.   When I hear a cop say that he only likes being a cop for the benefits and retirement, it makes me sick.   There are plenty of excellent applicants who have a passion for law enforcement, and the benefits package is completely irrelevant.

I went to the LVMPD's recruitment office, and one of the cops that works there looks like he is full of steroids.  It is so obvious.  This dude looks like he walked out of Flex magazine.   How the heck can this be justified.  I guess they take care of their own.  I don't think it sends a good message to potential recruits.  

LVMPD detective Jack Brandon charged with robbing a pair of slot machine collectors and using his unmarked car to flee the scene.  LVMPD officer Robert Conboy charged with shoplifting.  With cops like these, who needs criminals.  

Last year LVMPD had to pay $900,000 to two tourists because a few of their finest (Bob Rogers, Jerry Montes, Mark Mills, Rick Klein and Bob Lewis) were involved in a drunken brawl at a night club. The officers concocted bogus charges and had the two tourists falsely arrested.  Witnesses stated that a couple of the officers were using racial slurs while threatening the two men after they were detained.  This rates as one of the costliest disbursals of public money to settle a department lawsuit.  All of the officers involved still have their jobs, one has been promoted.  LVMPD IS ONE SCREWED UP POLICE DEPARTMENT.  

Did you hear about LVMPD officer Ronald Pearce who was charged with theft.  He was also investigated for having dealings with Las Vegas drug kingpin William Archer.  After he was released from the department, he was charged with possession and manufacturing of counterfeit money as well as possession of methamphetamine.

...and another comment...

Las Vegas has a serious problem with police crimes and scandals and the police department here is truly out of control. One white police officer, with a troubled history, on three different occasions murdered three marginalized homeless men in a six year period (two of the victims were black) and claimed all three men attacked him with a knife. Oddly enough, there were no witnesses to any of these killings! The officer, who has only been on the force for eight years, would not submit to a polygraph examination and is still on the force today.

Other recent police crimes include the threat of sexual torture of a casino coin thief who would not reveal his name to the police. Three police officers roughed him up, pulled down his pants and put a rubber glove on their night stick and threatened to sodomize him if he did not reveal his name. The officers knew his name but did this because he was "uncooperative". This felonious assault was all captured on the casino's security video and yet the officers still submitted falsified police reports. These officers were briefly jailed and released due to the good-old-boy conservative political brokers in Nevada.

In the last two years:


two off-duty policemen committed a drive-by shooting and murdered a Hispanic youth talking to his friends. The police officer driving the car was not charged with ANY crime.
Another on-duty officer forced a couple to commit sexual acts for his sexual gratification.
One police cadet committed a drug-related murder while in the police academy.
The police crimes in "the Entertainment Capitol of the World" are sobering, sickening and reminds one of Hitler's gestapo.

Hmmm....


How does the pro-polygraph crowd explain this?


Officer Sean Curd          -possession of cocaine
Detective Kelly              -lost a kilo of coke (how?)  
Officer Ramirez              -forcing a sex act
Officer Fisher                 -shooting at Mexicans
Officer Mortenson          -shooting at Mexicans
Detective Hartung         -molesting a boy
Officer Splinter               -brandishing  a weapon
Sgt Keller                       -receiving $15,000 (overtime?)
Officer Miller                   -beating a handcuffed man
Officer McCulloch            -3 dui's in 18 months
No name DARE officer     -smoking pot
Officer Brown                  -poss GHB and Ecstacy  
Detective Brandon          -robbery
Officer Conroy                 -shoplifting
Officer Rogers                 -brawling    
Officer Montes                -brawling
Officer Mills                     -brawling
Officer Klein                    -brawling
Officer Lewis                   -brawling
Officer Pearce                 -poss meth manufact $
Cadet no name               -murder while at academy
Officer Woodard                    -sexual assult on minor

suethem
How does the anti-polygraph crowd explain it ???

Ray L

Raymond, us anti-polygraph folks can say that these instances prove that the polygraph policy that many law enforcement agencies believe so much in, are a waste.   I would bet my money that all of the aforementioned LVMPD personnel mentioned all passed their polygraphs.  I think it is safe to assume that their exams covered the areas of drug usage, theft, and undetected criminal activity.  I think only a naive fool would defend the polygraph here.  Do you think all of these winners started their illegal activities only after they passed their polygaphs and became cops.   If that is what you think,  you are one ignorant individual.

Just because you have a badge does not mean you are a good person. All it show's is that the polygraph does not work, and bad people can and do pass it, that is why this site is here. This site is called ANTIpolygraph for a reason. It shows all the faults of the system. All of this proves the point of why the polygraphed should be outlawed.

:-/
I will try this one time.  Will the anti-polygraph people do a little research into just how many police departments use the polygraph in their hiring procedure.

Now look at all of the police departments in the United States(for a start) How many of these departments have unblemished records, no bad cops, no bad shootings just perfect records serving the citizens performing perfect police work?  

Seperate those perfect departments that do not use polygraph from those that do. What is the answer, how many use Polygraph, how many use only BI?

Now go a little further and determine how many of those departments that rely solely on BI, are perfect?

 NONE? How do you explain this?

Should not all background investigations be abolished?  Anybody who wants to become a police officer should simply report to the nearest police station , pick up a gun and a badge and go fight crime.

If this happened, then who would you blame?

Ray L.

Ray,

My explanation is that the polygraph is not accurate...

Didn't catch Gary Leon Ridgeway - the deadliest killer in the U.S. ...

Didn't catch Aldrige Ames - one of the worst spies to betray the U.S. ......

Didn't catch any of the officers on the list....

Seems like if you apply in LV and pass the polygraph you get a badge whether you: hate mexicans, use drugs, molest children, rob, steal, lie or kill.

I guess your right ! They will let anyone have a gun and a badge!  Pass a poly and load your  service weapon!


This rant is not aimed at the good, hard working, honest cops in LV!

It's aimed at those persons who actually believe that the polygraph is accurate!

Ray you still did not explain how these officers passed!

I think that any department that uses the polygraph should understand how extremely flawed it is.  I agree that there is, nor will there ever be a perfect way to screen police applicants.  However, relying on the polygraph to decide who gets selected and who does not is a very poor approach.   Obviously there are going to be crooked cops in any department regardless of how thorough the background checks may be.   When a recruit is selected because he or she passes a polygraph exam, which is how many of these departments are doing it,  this is a grave mistake.  Many departments don't want to take the time to do a proper background investigation, so they do the bare essentials, assuming that the real issues of concern were dealt with during the polygraph.  Did you not read the post about LVMPD being criticized for hiring 147 police recruits WITHOUT EVER BEING GIVEN BACKGROUND CHECKS.    This statistic is a fact.  To compare polygraphs to background investigations is totally and completely ridulous.   B.I.s  serve a purpose, they are legitimate, and verifiable information is obtained.    Polygraphs on the other hand, are neither valid nor reiliable.  They often destroy innocent well qualified applicants' chances at their dream careers, not to mention the mental scarring and damage to their homelives  they can cause by falsely branding them liars.  

I have been reading this site for many months now.  I work in the public safety field so I have a bit of inside information about the polygraph and CVSA.  I believe and many of my peers believe that the polygraph is, in fact, not extremely accurate.  However, pre-employment polygraphs are an extremely useful investigative tool.  First of all, many people do not apply for law enforcement jobs because they know that they will face a polygraph.  The great majority of these people do have things in their background that will disqualify them so they just "throw in the towel".  Secondly, the polygraph does encourage admissions that would otherwise go undisclosed.  I am more than willing to admit that false-positives do happen and good canidates are lost in the "process".  Likewise, false-negitives happen too.  What we have here is a dilemma as far as the polygraph is concerned.  The truth is, even the most through background investigations can not always determine if a person is qualified to be a peace officer.  The polygraph, in this case, may be able to "persuade" a person to admit more than he was will to admit in the absence of the polygraph.  The polygraph is not perfect by any means, but it does serve as a useful investigative tool.  As far as I am concerned, I would like the polygraph to remain in place and be used in pre-employment screening until a more accurate device is invented.

Jack Dawson

Jack,

The utility you believe exists (quite apart from the serious flaws you correctly acknowledge are present) with polygraph screening totally depends on examinees believing that there is some diagnostic value to these exams.   There is none (no such validity) and as more and more people realize this, the utility ship you cling to is slowly sinking.  Additionally the widespread knowledge of the successful use of countermeasures has all but made polygraph screening a complete (bad) joke and hopefully will lead to a Titanic rate of sinking.  And one further point...by definition a screening polygraph (as opposed to a criminal specific test) is not a useful investigative tool ...it is a fishing expedition...these exams are largely not based on any prior (investigative) information...and with many agencies they are not followed up by any collection of (investigative) information through a background investigation.  It (polygraph screening) is nothing but a fool's exercise and one becoming more foolish with the passage of time...

Very well said.

You make very good points.  However, I never said I "cling" to the polygraph.  I simply stated that it can be useful in polygraph screening.  If the polygraph were to be banished tomorrow, believe me, I will not loose any sleep over it.  The polygraph is flawed no doubt, but it does keep a lot of unqualified people from applying for LE jobs.  I know many of them.  My son being one of them.

Your arguments regarding the "proactive benefits" of polygraph screening are flawed. In your postings, you detail both false positives and negatives associated with polygraph screening. What the hell is the benefit of a device that sometimes indicates that an honest person is being deceptive, or a dishonest person honest??

Finally, regarding your contention that the polygraph is an effective tool in discouraging  potentially, undesirable, law enforcement candidates from applying for such careers; I must respond. Based on your logic, socialpaths can beat the polygraph. Therefore,what do they have to fear when applying for law enforcement positions?

The polygraph is a fraud!

The I encourage you to continue to fight to have the polygraph abolished.  I will in no way attemp to stop it.  I am still of the opinion that the poslygraph is useful to an extent and I have no problem with it.  That is just my opinion.  Best of luck to you all.

Jack Dawson,

Seems like if the background investigator asked you about your son, he probably would not have been hired.

If the polygraph was used he may have beaten it with countermeasures or simply passed  it like so many other people who should not wear badges.

What about all those people who were falsely accused.

They are not simply "lost" candidates!

They have to take the title of "liar" with them to their next application.

Now all these applicants who are falsely accused are supposed to be supporters of their local PD?

"I would call the police about those kids selling drugs across the street, but after what they did to me..."

If you can't trust the police, why bother calling them!

Suethem,

The canidates that were falsely accused of lieing on the polygraph and were disqualified are if fact, lost candiates to the agency they applied to.  The fact remains that they are disqualified.  Fairly or unfairly, no matter what title or catagory you put them into, they are disqualified and out of that particular job.

If the background investigator asked me about my son, I would tell they that I think his is a great kid and I would recommend him for the job.  A background investigator simply asking me questions is not going to get my son disqualified.

As far as people being false positives, if refuse to call the police because they do not trust them, well, that is a decision they will have to make.  If you failed the polygraph and then refuse to call the police when you would otherwise have, then I think you are a bit immature and are holding a grudge.  The police have a hiring "process" and if you want the job, you have to pass the "process".  If you can not pass, then you do not get the job.  It is that simple.  No one is intitled to and no one has a right to work in law enforcement.  The agency has the right to set the hiring standards they feel are nessessary.  If you can not meet that standard, then you should not get the job.  

So, what happens when the polygraph is abolished?  Then what?  Do you think the poice will stop hiring unqualified people?  Do you think the background investigations will prevent that?  They won't.  Any clever person could pass a background if they knew what to conceal.  Tell me, Seuthem, what do you propose is the absence of the polygraph?  What do you think the procedures for hiring police should be?  You say the polygraph should be abolished.   Tell us what you think should happen after that so that the police can hire only qualified people.  I do not have the answer to that question.  I do know this:  If it were up to me, I would leave the polygraph right were it is.

Nonsense, Jack!  I don't know of any background investigator who would interview you (absent special circumstances) regarding what you think about your son (very much the straw man argument there).  Depending on your son's age and background, I would think present and former professional and social acquaintances (i.e., former ex girl friends are ex for a reason) would be interviewed looking for any consistently told problems and further investigating any developed problem areas.  Why in the world would anyone guess with a polygraph?  Polygraph screening has absolutely NO…let me repeat, NADA diagnostic validity.  Although clearly the norm for many departments this is nothing but utter nonsense if ascertaining the truth be important.    As far as the resting place for polygraph is concerned, as opposed to your suggestion, I would recommend that of J. Edgar Hoover who is reported to have said in a more lucid moment..."Take that damn thing and throw it in the lake..." (Or words to that effect)

Jack,

You help me make my point.  There is no "standard" when you use the polygraph!

It failed to meet scientific standards and has obviously not caught many serious criminals, some who became police officers.  Thats failure in the field.

To say that the polygraph is a valid  part of the testing process like the 1.5 mile run, the O course, or the dummy drag is to compare apples to oranges.

The physical testing, the educational testing are all valid measures of ability-  the polygraph doesn't meaure anything!  Honest people fail.  Liars pass.  Where's the standard there.

Jack you should know that anything you do in LE has an effect on the public.  Candidates sit on juries, go to city council meetings, vote...

Its my view that PDs that soley rely on the polygraph to make hiring determinations are pissing in the well.

I also don't understand why you would recommend your son as a good candidate if he is not?  Thats not being very honest to the background investigator.  

Drop the poly and do a thorough background investigation,  one that requires more than some graph paper and ink...  You don't just use one source of information when conducting an investigation. Why do it with the hiring process?

Jack, if you think for a second that the polygraph is deterring bad apples from applying, you're not being rational.  This may have been true a decade ago, but today nearly everybody who has things to hide, will seek knowledge about polygraphs.  This will then bring to light the nonsense behind the polygraph.  What kind of moron would succumb to the belief that when a person is lying, his physiological readings will change.  One does not even need countermeasures to beat a polygraph exam.   How can a inconclusive be reached?  If the polygraph is a device to determine truth or deception, how the heck is nothing determined by the outcome of an inconclusive?  I really get sick and tired of  scumbags who act as if a false positive is not a serious problem that needs to be corrected.  See how you would like it if it happened to you.  You have no idea what kind of negative impact it has on people's lives.  It can destroy someone's home life, personal life, and happiness, but I guess that is an acceptable loss right?   As far as your comment about a background being easier to beat than a polygaph,  I don't agree.   I bet if you knew how many cops are hired who actually beat their polygraphs, you would change you tune pretty fast.  

That's a lot of bad cops for one department.  Here's another one for the list;  LVMPD officer Jason Woodard charged with 8 counts of sexual assault with a minor under 16,  2 counts of open and gross lewdness, and 2 counts of lewdness with a child under 14.   To think that this guy was arresting other scumbags for crimes like these, while he himself  was one of the them.  I find it hard to believe that a police department can hire so many dirty officers.  Who the hell is charge of the hiring selection of these damn degenerates.  

Pam,

The polygraph is in charge of hiring at LVPD!!

Thanks for the addition to the list of shame. I will add the name if there is still room left.

speaking of polygraphers f'ing up:

NEW ORLEANS-- The Orleans Parish district attorney's office announced Thursday that it is dismissing all cases in which two police officers -- who are indicted on corruption charges -- had a principal role.

NOPD use the polygraph as a pre-emloyment screening tool-- nice work fellas, you gave the green light toa  couple of real winners there.

HOUSTON— Five police officers charged with taking money from cantina owners in exchange for protection and forewarning of enforcement have been dismissed for allegedly failing to cooperate in a subsequent internal affairs investigation.

Nicw work polyboys!

This is off the topic of the LVMP poly program but bears some weight to the topic discussed here.

Here in Calgary, Canada the fire department has hastily implemented the poly as a pre-employment step because one firefighter was caught and charged with running a prostitution ring out of his massage parlor.

And the fire department thinks the poly is going to help prevent this sort of thing!!  LOL

Go figure that the police department whose crime lab is the worst  in the country uses the polygraph as a hiring tool.

Corrupt cops and a lab that frames innocent people.  I am glad that I don't live in Houston!

I took my LVMPD poly this past week.  I don't know how it went, but I feel pretty good about it.  I was asked what I know about the polygraph.  I said absolutely nothing.  If the guy only knew that I was calling his every next move.  I was talking to a guy who was taking his the same day as me and he said he was not a bit worried about his polygraph as he winked at me.  I'm not sure what he meant by that.  This is what I find amusing; so many people are learning of ways to learn about and beat the exams, I don't know why they are even used anymore.  

I took my LVMPD poly last week, and I'm not sure how it went.  I was not given a result, and I didn't want to ask.  I spoke to another candidate who was taking his poly that same day and he told me that he was not worried about it in the least bit, as he smiled and winked at me.  I got the feeling that he had prepared himself for the test.  

Those two posts were freakishly similar.

Nomad, those posts were both mine.  The first time I wrote it, my browser displayed a strange page.  Later when I tried to view it on the message board, it didn't appear.  In return, I posted roughly the same thing under a different name.  Sorry for the confusion.  

I find this information about LVMPD to  be utterly disgusting.  Assuming all of this information is true, which I believe it is because I did a search on Yahoo regarding a few of the mentioned officers and the facts were there, LVMPD is one lousy department.  One could argue different points about the good qualities of the department, however, nothing can be said to make up for the poor choices they have made in hiring officers.  This many corrupt cops cannot be justified.  The sad part is, the ones mentioned on this post are ones  that were made public.  I can't imagine how much goes on that never makes its way to the press.

I concur.  The LVMPD cannot justify its history of bad cops.  I've seen several of them acting completely out of control at night clubs before.  Embarrassing to the department if you ask me, however, it's their own fault.

Well I think it's time that thier few good cops got some much needed help. Does anyone know when their testing dates are?

PAQ,

Obviously you have a computer, so why don't you just go to their website at www.lvmpd.com and find out for yourself?!

Good luck,

Kona

Man, I didn't know you could get your head bite off online. Everyone was talking about Vegas metro, so I just asked a question KONA. Man talk about waking up on the wrong side of the bed. But thank you very much for the info. Please tonight try and get some much needed rest.

PAQ wrote on May 12^th, 2004 at 2:33am:

Man, I didn't know you could get your head bite off online. Everyone was talking about Vegas metro, so I just asked a question KONA.

PAQ,

In the time that it took you to type those two sentences, you could have gone to the LVMPD website (with the link that I provided) and found the answer to your question, plus a myriad of other information for the prospective police officer recruit.  

Maybe what I'm saying here is that you could have answered your own question if you had taken 30 seconds to research it, instead of wasting people's time asking questions that you could EASILY look up yourself.  


PAQ wrote on May 12^th, 2004 at 2:33am:

But thank you very much for the info.

You're welcome.  You might want to use [url=www.google.com[/url]]www.google.com[/url] as a search engine for any future quesitions concerning a specific police agency.  

Kona

this topic has been dead for a while, thought id bump it. i've lived in vegas all my life and wanted to get a job with metro. just thought if any one had any recent experience with them

Kona-

While looking around this site, I stumbled upon this posting. Why are you so angry? The poster asked a question, big deal! Why did you post a reply?

Try yoga

According to a USA Today article published Wednesday, 1 August 2007, LVMPD's combined polygraph/background check disqualification rate stands at 70%:


Quote:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-01-vegascops_N.htm Long odds to join Las Vegas force By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY LAS VEGAS — Kayvan Kazemi spent the night before his police entrance exam studying the gambling tables. The 24-year-old Long Island, N.Y., officer candidate lost about $400 in the casinos before calling it a night. But nothing he did violated the law or disqualified him for a spot in the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department academy. It was just a typical night in Vegas, where Kazemi is still in the running for a job. And Lt. Charles Hank, the department's personnel chief, says there are worse examples of pre-test preparation. Much worse. Of the finalists for the 400 available jobs this year, a staggering 70% are expected to fail the required background and polygraph examinations for attempting to conceal a range of criminal activities, from prostitution to fraud and drug use. If the recruiting effort were a one-year campaign, the washout rate might be a lesser concern. But Vegas plans to hire at least 400 officers every year for the next five years to keep pace with the region's explosive growth. And Vegas' experience is not unlike that of a number of departments nationwide. War siphons pool of recruits In Phoenix, where recruiters are in their own long-term hiring campaign, more than a third of the applicants are failing polygraph examinations. In Orlando, about half are not surviving critical pre-polygraph interviews. One of the Orlando candidates flew in for an interview earlier this year and was dismissed after listing two fraudulent college degrees that the candidate had purchased online, said Sgt. Christine Gigicos, Orlando's recruiting unit director. "As much as we tell 'em not to lie, they come in here and lie and they think we're not going to find out. Maybe they forget: We are the police," Vegas police Sgt. Dan Zehnder said. The last time police officials were voicing such concern about the quality of recruits was seven years ago when the federal government began phasing out the landmark police hiring program aimed at adding 100,000 to the ranks across the country. Now, a protracted war is siphoning away scores of traditional recruits, forcing departments to cast a wider net to fill thousands of jobs. Many of the jobs have been created in response to rapid community growth and the steady retirements of hundreds of baby-boomer officers. But many are citing the war as having exacted a particularly heavy toll in the police ranks. Last year, an analysis of Justice Department data found that the deployment of thousands of local officers to Iraq and Afghanistan as military reservists was outstripping the pace of hires. The analysis found that 11,380 officers were called for military Reserve service in 2003, compared with 2,600 new hires. Since that report was published, Justice statistician Matthew Hickman said anecdotal evidence suggests that departments are "having a lot of trouble" with both recruitment and retention. Jeremy Wilson, associate director of the Rand Center on Quality Policing, says the national law enforcement hiring market is caught in its own "perfect storm" stoked by intense competition for a shrinking universe of applicants even as departments have relaunched aggressive recruiting campaigns. A vice squad void of vices? Vegas police recruiters were all smiles when a record 647 officer candidates streamed into a cavernous convention center July 10 to sit for the first in a day-long battery of entrance exams. Nearly 150 applicants had come from as far as Vermont, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Iowa and Michigan to fill the hundreds of available slots. Sgt. Zehnder, a department training instructor, offered a sobering dose of reality. For every 100 candidates, maybe 10 will eventually make it through the training academy and then to the street. About 23% of candidates never get past a multiple-choice basic knowledge test. Forty percent fail the physical training workout — a mix of calisthenics, agility and running drills. But no other test comes close to producing the failure rate — seven in 10 — than the department's background check and polygraph exam. "I can't tell you how many candidates I've lost," recruiter Luke Jancsek said of those caught lying. Many, he said, try to conceal the frequency of past drug use, some of which would not necessarily disqualify them. "I want to smack 'em in the head sometimes." At an applicant reception on the night before the July 10 test day, recruiting officers urged a gathering of about 100 candidates to come forward if they thought past conduct might bar them from law enforcement. When the meeting was over, a handful of candidates grudgingly acknowledged a range of criminal activity in private meetings with recruiters. Lt. Hank said one acknowledged paying for sex "just a few months ago" at a bachelor party. Another candidate from the East Coast, who had flown in at his own expense, also admitted to paying a prostitute. Both were encouraged to look elsewhere for work. Most of the private meetings, however, involved questions about prior drug use. If there was good news in the eleventh-hour confessions, it was that they came before the start of the lengthy and costly testing and training process. Candidates begin drawing a $47,777 annual salary while they are attending the 23-week academy. Employing tourist-trap tactics Given the high disqualification rate and the department's enormous expansion plans, Sgt. Eric Fricker said the department must maintain the current pace of attracting about 600 applicants a month. To keep those numbers up, the department is using the same kinds of tactics the city has used to attract 40 million tourists and 50,000 new residents each year. In the department's recruiting trips to the Midwest, the department emphasizes the warm, dry climate and surging economy. A big part of the department's hiring campaign is being managed by the same marketing company that developed the city's signature motto: "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." Fricker is unapologetic about using the city's natural lures and vices to keep candidates coming. "It's Vegas," he said.

I recently tested w/ the Metro and have passed everything except for my polygraph that I just took. Now I don't really no where I stand but am hoping for a retest. What bothered me the most is that I failed a drug use question, when I know I wasn't lying at all, and have only used marijuana once for experience!?!
That was the only question I failed, and after the test, my Examiner asked me why I was lying. I said I wasn't and found it weird how I did pass the question that said "Have you ever lied to any law enforcement authority?"
I answered no, and passed, which should say something that I was being truthful but was probably stressed or something.
This is really upsetting to me as this is the city I want to work for, and I am so close to my dream, but feel that I may be falsely disqualified. So I had to, fill out a paper why I believe there may be an error, but who knows where that will get me. HR cannot do anything about it as well...
I want a retest because I know I did not lie, and I know that this may potentially disqualify me for future LE jobs I want to apply for.

I just took the Polygraph test for Las vegas Metro Police and received and inconclusive result.

I anticipated this day just out of fear of the horror stories i've heard of false positives.  The examiner was very nice, and we got to know each other pretty well.  at least enough to creat a bit of a comfort zone. 
He was very educational explaining the entire process and how the polygraph works.
We reviewed the polygraph booklet before testing to make sure there were no errors.  No changes were made as I found no errors or any doubt with any of my answers.

The examiner than starts explaining what each device does as he's hooking you up.  he gives me a moment to gather myself, than we start.  the  instant he said the test is now be gaining, suddenly my nerves became intense.  He told me to stop trying to calm myself down, and just go with it.  so I did.
The examiner than steps out of the room when he's complete and comes back with a printout and another examiner wearing a suit and badge.  They show me my charts which appear like tight lines at the beginning. referred as my base line and tight together lines again at the end of the test, which they called my base line again.  however the entire middle section from the first to last question were all consistent long and wavy lines.   
So they said I was using counter measures to manipulate the test.  made no sense because I was more of a wreck during the test than I was before and after.  so I thought the wavy lines should be opposite.
They said they would give me another chance and warned me to just follow direction and not do it again.  so now i'm more nervous, and wouldn't you know it. the test pattern came out identical as the first.  they ruled it as inconclusive and said they would now have to pull me out of the hiring process and send the info up to the "board" to deliberate whether or not I may be allowed to reapply in the future. 
This completely blows I put a lot of time and energy along with hopes and dreams into this department, and feel crushed now.
I'm still waiting for my assigned investigator to get in contact with me after this situation.  Which happened yesterday by the way.

wrote on Mar 12^th, 2014 at 10:26pm:

comes back with a printout and another examiner wearing a suit and badge.

psyops.

wrote on Mar 12^th, 2014 at 10:26pm:

I just took the Polygraph test for Las vegas Metro Police and... they said I was using counter measures to manipulate the test.

It is a sad irony that often the people polygraph operators accuse people of using "countermeasures" are those who have no idea what that even means!  As a matter of fact, polygraph operators are now so paranoid that one of the questions frequently asked on the polygraph test itself is if the subject has read my or George's book.  Many of these unscrupulous jerks will fail or disqualify people just because they are suspected of the horrible Orwellian "thought crime" of educating themselves!  As a matter of fact, the information in these books is so effective, (and because the polygraph as a "lie detector" is so ineffective), it is considered to be "contraband" - it is actually prohibited by Big Brother's polygraphers in the government! 

2016 Applicant

Made it all the way to Polygraph exam, i passed according to the examiner. However, within the questions i was asked if i had ever signed a document that was under another persons name. Out of honesty and fear to Fail, i said yes.

Reason: 2 Weeks prior to my poly test, i signed a bill of sale for my friend. Both of these guys were ok and aware of the signing. Although it maybe considered forgery or illegal to sign for another person, i knowingly did so because i received permission from the buyer and seller. Research shows that under these permissions and circumstance, it is a permissible confession.

Ok so fast forward 2 weeks, i officially received an email from my recruit stating i failed the "Background check" . That is where i am completely devastated by theyre  decision & the mystery of why!?

There is nothing in my background of what so ever that could indicate me as a problem or etc.

I believe i was rejected due to the polygraph confession.

but why does the email say: Background check" Failed.

this will haunt me forever, i need to know why!?

all those years in school... for this..?

wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

...i officially received an email from my recruit stating i failed the "Background check". I believe i was rejected due to the polygraph confession.

Recruiters lie, interviewers lie, polygraph examiners lie.

But sometimes they tell the truth. If your recruiter says you passed the poly but failed the BI, the most likely explanation for this puzzling phenomenon is that you passed the poly but failed the BI.


wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

There is nothing in my background of what so ever that could indicate me as a problem or etc.

It wouldn't have to be anything real. If someone they interviewed decided to lie about you for some reason, and they couldn't find anyone to tell them the truth, then your BI would be tainted.

It could be anything. They won't tell you. For all you will ever know, it could be your high school English teacher who is still pissed off because you refuse to capitalize "i" when referring to yourself.

Has anyone passed all of their tests

poly
fitness
oral boards

then disqualified for character issues? What does that even mean?

It means they found something in your personal history they didn't like, in my opinion.  Either someone has said something about you when they called references and family.  If this is the case, you have bigger problems than not getting on with METRO; you have a rat.... A gnawing heaving rat in your circle.

Having said that, base on my experience, it is usually something on social media that screwed you over. 

one or both, are distinct possibilities.

Just my take based on the limited information. 

P.S.  I hope I didn't say anything you'd find offense.  I have a unique sense of humor

Joe McCarthy wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 12:54am:

It means they found something in your personal history they didn't like, in my opinion.  Either someone has said something about you when they called references and family.  If this is the case, you have bigger problems than not getting on with METRO; you have a rat.... A gnawing heaving rat in your circle. Having said that, base on my experience, it is usually something on social media that screwed you over.  one or both, are distinct possibilities. Just my take based on the limited information.  P.S.  I hope I didn't say anything you'd find offense.  I have a unique sense of humor

This is exactly the problem I had with my IC applications.  Based on my FOIA/PA requests, I believe that my rejection was due entirely to the BI.  Unfortunately, the BI'ors were able to "develop" a series of informants (all at one employer in particular), not authorized by me, who went out of their way to provide incorrect/inaccurate accounts to the investigators.

It only takes one asshole

Joe McCarthy wrote on Jan 12^th, 2017 at 11:43pm:

It only takes one asshole

Indeed!    It also appears that each negative recommendation (regardless of source) in a BI is weighted the same as a dozen positive ones.   >:(

wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 11:48pm:

Has anyone passed all of their tests poly fitness oral boards then disqualified for character issues? What does that even mean?

You might try joining casino security, assuming that they don't polygraph! 8-)

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 7:00am:

It could be anything. They won't tell you. For all you will ever know, it could be your high school English teacher who is still pissed off because you refuse to capitalize "i" when referring to yourself.

That's absolutely correct, Auntie.  In my case, my BI for a summer IC  internship was fouled up by a group of cowards at the library where I worked part-time while in school.  None were authorized by me as references.  One bitter lesson that I learned from all this was that, as a class, institutional (as opposed to public) library staff are nearly as despicable as  are advocates of the polygraph!   ::)

wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

i signed a bill of sale for my friend. Both of these guys were ok and aware of the signing.

One way of getting around that dilemma is to put the word "for" in front of the typed name of the signatory, and use your own signature above that. :)

George W. Maschke wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2007 at 1:06pm:

According to a USA Today article published Wednesday, 1 August 2007, LVMPD's combined polygraph/background check disqualification rate stands at 70%:

I'd suspect that the CIA washout rate is even higher than that!  :)

Ex Member wrote on Mar 12^th, 2014 at 11:47pm:

psyops

Or "polyps"..LOL!  ;D

wrote on Oct 14^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

I believe i was rejected due to the polygraph confession. but why does the email say: Background check" Failed. this will haunt me forever, i need to know why!? all those years in school... for this..?

I can understand fully.   That was exactly my reaction to the manner in which my application to the CIA was definitively and irreversibly f*cked up by similarly high-handed BI tactics! >:(

xenonman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2017 at 4:24pm:

It could be anything. They won't tell you. For all you will ever know, it could be your high school English teacher who is still pissed off because you refuse to capitalize "i" when referring to yourself.

Or if you capitalized "E.E." when referring to e. e. cummings!  lol   ;D