I'd like to hear stories from anyone who has taken a polygraph exam in Seattle, with Mr. Mungle, for the position of Border Patrol Agent. 

I met with Mungle last month - my last step (+ PF2) in the long, tiring process of trying to become a BP Agent.  Mungle will flash his I.D., his badge, and even his arrogance.  He will ensure you know he has been doing this job over 20 years.  He will tell you that he is very direct, and that he doesn't play games.  He will ask why you're so jumpy.  You try sitting in this chair Mungle, see how long your back can take it before you become jumpy.  As you can see, there wasn't really anything about this guy that impressed me.  I was ready to leave after listening to him for about 5 minutes.  Having nothing to hide, and giving completely honest answers to every question asked, I was advised that I was not telling him something regarding my SF-86, basically that I had ommitted information.  In addition to this, I was advised that I was not being completely honest regarding drug use.  Mungle wanted answers...I had none for him.  I was basically being called a liar to my face, when in actuality, I was being completely honest.  Mungle said if I told him what I was hiding, everything would be fine, and I could get through the process.  Again, I had no answers for him...I was completely truthful on my background paperwork, did not omit anything as he stated, and did not lie regarding my drug use.  Mungle ended the exam, and advised me that he couldn't help me any further if I wasn't going to give him the information he wanted to hear.  I was shocked, angry, and devastated that this guy was going to sit here and call me a liar to my face when I did nothing but tell the truth.  I left totally dejected, bewildered, knowing that I had gotten this far in the process, just to have it ended for what reasons I still have no idea. 

I have read messages regarding applicants who lied and passed, as well as those who were truthful and failed.  Unfortunately, I fell into the latter category.  It's unfortunate that my future fell into the hands of Mungle, and a cracker jack contraption that portrayed me as a liar.  Thanks for absolutely nothing ahole. 

Would that be retired Army warrant officer and former CIA and DIA polygrapher Harry Mungle?


Quote:

WHAT PROFESSION DID YOU FOLLOW AFTER THE SERVICE AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? IF CURRENTLY SERVING, WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT JOB? After retiring from the Army in 1987, I went to work for DODIG Defense Criminal Investigative Service as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner. In July 2001, I went to work for the Central Intelligence Agency as a Security Officer/Polygraph Examiner and ended up in Iraq in 2003. Then in 2004 I went to work for the Defense Intelligence Agency, as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner and found myself in Afghanistan and Iraq on multiple tours. In July 2008 I went to work for the US Customs and Border Protection, Office of Internal Affairs, Seattle Field Office, as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner and I will retire here as soon as I stop having fun. From the jungles of Vietnam, to the sands of Iraq, to the mountains of Afghanistan, to the rain forests of Madagascar I have been places and done things I thought I would never do and all because of my chosen career in the Army.

I hope that Mr. Mungle is not having fun falsely accusing truthful applicants of deception, and that he might choose to devote his time to better, more honest pursuits.

---

"Mungle ended the exam, and advised me that he couldn't help me any further if I wasn't going to give him the information he wanted to hear."

Sounds exactly like my examiner when I took the FBI poly. The above tactic is common among examiners. These folks DO NOT have your best interests at heart nor is their intention to "help" you.

I just received my official letter from Customs and Border Protection, rescinding my tentative job offer, due to being found unsuitable for a position as a Border Patrol Agent, based upon the results of my polygraph examination.

The letter also states that I have no appeal rights.  Last time I checked, I was an American citizen, living in the United States of America.

How can a person not have appeal rights?  I do not understand, and have lost much faith and respect for our government and its processes.

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2011 at 2:34am:

How can a person not have appeal rights?I do not understand

Does anyone know if Firedup's polygraph charts can be obtained through the Freedom of Information Act?

Stefano,

Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act?

wrote on Aug 4^th, 2011 at 5:57pm:

Stefano, Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act?

I put the question out there, but the silence is deafening. Maybe this is one road they don't want anyone to go down.

Stefano,

It is my opinion and my opinion only that the polygraph report is subject to FOI, I have been told the PDD Charts are different, however I do make the charts available to an independent examiner if requested for review.  There are times in court proceedings where charts are displayed and have to be produced in discovery.  I have never had a FOI request for charts.  I suggest you ask the APA that question and see what their response is. 

wrote on Aug 4^th, 2011 at 5:57pm:

Stefano, Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act?

Firedup, why don't you try? Insist that you get the charts--why would they be immune to the law? Once obtained, I'll be happy to give them my scrutiny. I'm one person that will NOT B.S. you, rest assured.

Thanks Stefano.  I will request them.

Same thing happened to me back in 1997/1998 except for the US Secret Service.  I too received the letter of regret.  I am glad their ploy is being exposed.  I would love to join a class action lawsuit if it were possible.

Stefano,

Just to follow up with you, I requested the results of my polygraph through the FOIA and received no response.  They will also not answer their phone.  I contacted Border Patrol Recruiting in Minneapolis and advised them of my situation and was told that there are no "2nd chances" with the polygraph, in addition to no appeal rights, and that any attempt to to obtain the results of my examination via Internal Affairs, FOIA, would be ignored.

I'm very frustrated to put it mildly.

firedup,

I am not surprised by your post. I'm certain they will not give up the charts because they don't want somebody like me critiquing them.

I'm not so versed on the FOIA, but think George had similar results. You may want to consider applying some political pressure like writing to your congressman and CC'ing the director of the office where you applied as well as the charlatan himself. They may still dig in their heels, but it will illuminate their shenanigans. Sparking the curiosity of an investigative reporter may also stir things up.

I had an experience with this fraud that was ALARMINGLY similar.  "Special" Agent Mungle is one of the biggest jokes I have encountered in my entire life.  He tries his hardest to intimidate you from the very start.  All I saw was a huge fatass that has no other skills and has to try and belittle others.

By the way, Mr. Mungle, I can tell you are an alcoholic.  Nice booze nose you piece of crap.  I know you read this too.  You specifically said you do.  By the way, I like how you flash your badge and claim you are a "special" agent.  You are NOT the same type of special forces special.  Think of yourself more like Special Education special you fraud.

This piece of work tried to accuse me of also lying on my SF-86. Completely false, I went through that thing with a fine tooth comb.  Then he also tried to accuse me of serious crimes.  Completely false as well.  I have never even got in so much trouble as a speeding ticket.  I was completely truthful on everything and I was called a liar.  He tries to say he can "help me" if I confess.  Confess to what?  I had not lied!

If I had any advice of future people that get contacted by Mungle, refuse it!  If anything, request someone else!  Call IA and tell them you don't want him as a examiner.  There is more than one examiner at that office, believe me.

On another note, isn't our government in debt?  How much money are we wasting paying these polygraphers?  We could be saving MILLIONS to get rid of them!

This is my first time on this site and I have seen so many folks whose lives are being very negatively effected by what must certainly be called a "very questionable" evaluation method if not an outright failure. I will say that anyone posting should try and refrain from letting their (righteous) anger direct them towards ad hominem commentary. These polygraph administrators are contributing to the downfall of civil society and are saying we are all liars (ad hominem from their end) and I refuse to attack them in any way except what is factual. They are perverse in their actions and dishonest in their efforts to evoke honesty, disingenuous is too kind a word for them and their ilk. I think the idea of contacting our state and federal officials is a good idea, perhaps even contacting the "county of testing" board members as well. Good luck to everyone who has been so tarnished by the mendacity of this charlatan science.   

This is the examiner that had me falsly booted from the FBI Seattle office for terrorism, I spent 4 years in Afghanistan, he can crappity smack off. I now work minimum wage with a TS/SCI. Words cannot express....

Truly honest people are more likely to fail polygraphs simply because they often fail to respond appropriately to the control question. Hence, even though their test is actually inconclusive it is ruled as a fail.

Passing or failing often has nothing to do with the measured results of the test, but rather is up to the discretion of the test administrator.

In some of these cases, it sounds like the administrator was already prepped by whatever agency it was who asked them to run the test to fail you, regardless of the measurements of the test.

That's actually a common tactic; a great way to weed out certain individuals that they wished barred/removed.

In other cases a false positive is used as a means to break someone down into confessing all that they were allegedly hiding. I know this sounds contradictory, but the truth is that the tests don't measure lying, they merely measure stress. So if a test is inconclusive, they'll score it as a fail in order to pressure their victim into coming clean.

Henry Mungle, I ashamed to admit, is my brother. Well, half brother, for he & I had different fathers.  Henry is a control freak and if he can not control a situation, it is deemed unhonest and doomed to fail. I am sorry that the people here have had their lives impacted by him. He has even tried to assassinate my integrity-all because I didn't do what he wanted me too.

I could give all kinds of examples on how his behaviour has mucked up other people's lives, but this is not the forum for it.
Just be grateful that you don't have to deal with him ever again!

wrote on Jan 21^st, 2012 at 8:25pm:

"Special" Agent Mungle is one of the biggest jokes I have encountered in my entire life.

Rhymes with "bungle" ! ;D

wrote on May 6^th, 2012 at 2:12am:

This is the examiner that had me falsly booted from the FBI Seattle office for terrorism, I spent 4 years in Afghanistan, he can crappity smack off. I now work minimum wage with a TS/SCI. Words cannot express....

I wonder why he left the CIA?  It appears as if he would have been an ideal employee there.    ::)

wrote on Jul 1^st, 2017 at 9:46pm:

Just be grateful that you don't have to deal with him ever again!

Might make an ideal golfing buddy for Quickfix! ;D :D

wrote on Jul 1^st, 2017 at 9:46pm:

Henry Mungle, I ashamed to admit, is my brother.

You should be ashamed alright. Any problems you have with your brother should be between you and him. To go public and denigrate your own flesh and blood is over the top.

Ex Member wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2017 at 1:50am:

Any problems you have with your brother should be between you and him. To go public and denigrate your own flesh and blood is over the top.

Yes, but I do admire her candor. 8-)

Ex Member wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2017 at 1:50am:

wrote on Jul 1st, 2017 at 9:46pm: Henry Mungle, I ashamed to admit, is my brother. You should be ashamed alright. Any problems you have with your brother should be between you and him. To go public and denigrate your own flesh and blood is over the top.

Loyalty to your country trumps loyalty to your family, if your family is treasonous and vile.

Aunty Agony wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2017 at 3:03pm:

Loyalty to your country trumps loyalty to your family, if your family is treasonous and vile.

Then you deal with it within your family. I would never publicly disparage a family member, even for murder. But, I would then go back home and kick his ass behind closed doors.

Ex Member wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2017 at 3:39pm:

Aunty Agony wrote on Jul 2nd, 2017 at 3:03pm: Loyalty to your country trumps loyalty to your family, if your family is treasonous and vile. Then you deal with it within your family. I would never publicly disparage a family member, even for murder. But, I would then go back home and kick his ass behind closed doors.

Then you would be a vigilante.

You do not have the authority to prosecute and sanction murderers, traitors, or other criminals. In most cases, if you punish a criminal yourself instead of reporting him to the authorities, you become an accessory. Society would probably understand, if the offense is not capital and not serious, but you'd have no legal defense and would be depending on judicial mercy.

When it comes to family Aunty, I live by a different code.

"Occhi aperti, mano sul coltello"

Ex Member wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2017 at 4:15am:

"Occhi aperti, mano sul coltello"

Yes, but who is the knife for? Your brother when he has murdered an innocent, or the carabinieri when they come to arrest him?

Maybe they will have better luck than Carlo Alberto Dalla Chiesa.

Aunty, I am joking. I am not a mafioso. I just think that one should not publicly disparage a family member.

Ex Member wrote on Jul 6^th, 2017 at 3:25am:

I just think that one should not publicly disparage a family member.

wrote on Jul 1^st, 2017 at 9:46pm:

He has even tried to assassinate my integrity-all because I didn't do what he wanted me too.

According to Barbara Wissler, her half-brother publicly attacked her first. (Of course we only have the one sentence in a longer post, but she did say it, so that's what I am responding to.)

Yeah, I see what you mean after I reread the post. It just kind of got my goat when she did that. But, true I do not know the whole story. I regret taking our conversation down that silly path. If the truth be known, Aunty is the poster I most respect on this forum.

Ex Member wrote on Jul 7^th, 2017 at 3:45am:

Aunty is the poster I most respect on this forum

You make Aunty blush and giggle and drop her pencil.


Ex Member wrote on Jul 7^th, 2017 at 3:45am:

I regret taking our conversation down that silly path

Well, I took it as more of an offhand remark than a moral position statement, and tried to respond in the same tone.

Divided loyalty is a serious subject, though. Unless a person hides in a cave, his loyalty naturally gets stretched over his multiple associations and group memberships. And it can be very difficult to know what to do when your best friends are fighting each other, or when a family member is seriously antisocial, or when your country is visiting war on the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

So Aunty also regrets the silly conversation, because to anyone who is currently entangled in such a loyalty dilemma, it probably wasn't very funny.