If the CIA starts its background investigation does this mean that they've passed you on the poly?  I imagine so because they probably wouldn't waste the time, correct?  

Since the poly is used as an initial screening tool, sounds
like you are good to go...

Thanks for the quick reply.  I appreciate it.  basically i was worried because they made me take it twice and said i might have to come in for a third.  I understand that's par for the course but overall it was a horrible experience.

Actually, they might still call you back fora third one after the background check. That was the case for me!

Great.  How often does that happen? Anyone have any idea?  AngryinNY, did you eventually get in or did they bonk you?

Anyone have any idea what % CIA rejects after the background is completed?  In other words, what % are rejected after the poly and then what % are rejected after the background?

Thanks.

Yup, I eventually got in. Though if I had any idea of how long the process was going to take I don't think I would have waited! I've since moved on. By the way, they never told me I "passed" the polygraph--but I guess failing it isn't ALWAYS reason to be dismissed.

Hi AngryinNY,

If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to get your clearance after the completion of the polygraph and/or BI?

I am currently 8 months from my COE and 4 months since the conclusion of the BI, and I still haven't heard anything.

Each time I call for an update they change the expected waiting time (originally from 4-6 months total, to 6-9 months total...and now they are saying it could be "a couple months more").

Did you have this same experience?  When should I finally expect to hear from them?!?


Thanks!

It's odd because my BI was almost complete when they called me in for the poly. [My BI examiner said my BI was due to the agency on Dec 2. and my poly and health visits were from Nov 28-30).  

I wonder if this is a good thing?  I never "passed" the poly (after 2 sessions), but I'm trying to remain optimistic.  

BTW, did any of you get to do office visits?  I did the office visit and it was awesome, but I noticed that many of the other applicants weren't scheduled for one. hmm...

I got to do an office visit.  In fact, almost all (if not all) of the other people that I spoke to who were getting processed at the same time as me had office visits scheduled.

My BI was completed shortly after my poly and health tests too.  I went in for my poly early in May (around 7th-8th) and my BI was started that same weekend (I know this b/c I had received a call from my investigator asking me to clarify some things).  During my BI interview, my investigator told me that he would be done with my investigation by June 1.  I guess I don't have too many bones in my closet, but I guess I thought the BI would take longer than 3 weeks!

missnina,
I thought that if you did not pass the poly the first two times, they would offer you a third and final opportunity to take the test.  Did they not do that with you?  And also, did the polygrapher specifically say, "you did not pass the poly"?

No, the poly officer did not say that I didn't pass.  She went through the usual, "This is unresolved... what are you hiding?!"  routine for hours to the point that I almost cried.  When she did the debriefing at the end she said that I could possibly be called in for a third poly. Then she took off the cuff off and shot a perky smile and "So, how was it?"  like we just finished a dental check-up or something.  Creepy.

One of the HR ladies at my potential office said that they would try to resolve any issues they had through my BI, if that wasn't possible they might call for a third poly.  

Longtimelistener (and others?):  Did your poly officer tell you that you passed?

My memory is starting to get fuzzy.  For a while I thought that the polygrapher had told me I passed.  But now I'm starting to wonder if he used those exact words.  It might be possible I determined in my mind that I passed because I wasn't called back for a second poly, without him really saying that I "passed."

However, I'm pretty sure he did say something along those lines.  I remember when he walked in after he left to "analyze" the charts and consult with his "supervisor," he told me I passed (or something along those lines).  To which I replied, "oh really?" (B/c he had just finished grilling me about a major crime history that doesn't exist in my background...so I thought they were getting this false impression of me).  And then he responded, "well, we could continue if you'd like..."  Anyway, I'm pretty sure he said that I passed, simply because of the reaction I remember having to what he said.

My examiner told me indirectly that I passed after I was grilled for almost four hours. He said that they may still call me back but it was not up to him to make that decision. I only had to take polygraph once. I got a call from the investigator about two weeks later so, I have a feeling that I passed. The investigation in now complete and from what I understand it has been submitted to the CIA for the final decision (adjudication). I have a good feeling about it but anxiety is running high.

Question:  

What are the chances of them calling me back for another examination? I really don’t want to go thru this again. Is the rejection rate high in adjudication?

I have the same question...  I know I'm in adjudication now and I've completed two inconclusive polys.  Even after my second poly the BI people were still calling my friends. Not sure whether this is good...

Are there any readers out there who made it to adjudication and were not offered the job?

I can’t speak from personal experience, but I do know that there are cases where applicants have entered adjudication and then were not offered the job (due to being rejected a security clearance).

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/

The above link is a record of DoD cases that were initially denied a clearance during adjudication, for which the decision was later appealed.  I assume that if there are instances of applicants being rejected a clearance during adjudication for the DoD, the same can happen with the CIA.

However, I believe there is a “suitability” screening that occurs before a case is placed in adjudication.  There are a number of people who have posted who were rejected due to suitability issues before they ever entered into adjudication.

So I guess what I’m trying to say is that since you have entered adjudication, you have already cleared some obstacles, but you are not home free.

And also, I have been in adjudication for SIX MONTHS now!  I’ve been told this is normal, but I sometimes get the impression they just tell me what I want to hear.  In any case, expect sort of a long wait while they adjudicate your case…

Quote:

Then she took off the cuff off and shot a perky smile and "So, how was it?"  like we just finished a dental check-up or something.  Creepy.

Sounds like a carefully refined interrogation tactic at work there. Such a statement (i.e. “was it”—as in past tense) was likely an attempt at reinforcing in your mind that the “test” was over (when it really wasn’t), as anything you say from the moment you walk in to the time you leave the building can (and will) be reported as derogatory info.

I would be willing to be that the friendly, non-confrontational females like this get a substantial amount more damaging admissions than threatening, abusive male interrogators.

I can’t imagine than even a substantial portion of sophisticated people uninformed about polygraphy fall for the in-your-face, finger pointing, shouting, cursing tough guy interrogation techniques used by the more obnoxious examiners. To me, this type of thing is readily transparent. If I were subjected to something like this, it would immediately put me into a very defensive position about volunteering of any info.

On the other hand, the approach where the examiner portrays him/herself as the applicant’s ally against the administration is a lot harder to pick up on. I’d be willing to be that some examiners with super refined skills here manage to best a few people with complete knowledge of the entire polygraph process. We cannot underscore enough that to make the mistake of believing that YOUR examiner is somehow different—no matter how nice he or she is—will likely have fatal results for your career path.

As George and I note in the book, smart polygraphers realize that you can catch far more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

missnina wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 11:21pm:

No, the poly officer did not say that I didn't pass.  She went through the usual, "This is unresolved... what are you hiding?!"  routine for hours to the point that I almost cried.  When she did the debriefing at the end she said that I could possibly be called in for a third poly. Then she took off the cuff off and shot a perky smile and "So, how was it?"  like we just finished a dental check-up or something.  Creepy. One of the HR ladies at my potential office said that they would try to resolve any issues they had through my BI, if that wasn't possible they might call for a third poly.   Longtimelistener (and others?):  Did your poly officer tell you that you passed?

Missnina, We definitely had the same poly examiner.  She asked the same think after we were done. I groaned I think. (That was mistake I know, but I recovered and remained calm.)  I had my poly over 7 months ago. Did it twice and was told there were unresolved issues. She sasked if I would be willing to come back again. Sure I said.  That is last I have heard from them. My BI was also pretty much finished before my poly.  Neighbors, friends, employers, etc.

I have heard nothing. I have called to update my job employment status but that is it.   How do you know if you are in the adjudication phase? I guess I could call and ask...

Ok, let me say that I am so upset.  I took my poly's in which my tester said that they were going to recommend me for clearance.  Went through the health and sych test with no problems.  Had my office visit at headquarters, where everyone said if you've had your poly your pretty much in.  Then last week, i received a rejection letter.  WTF!!!  I dont understand.  Has this happened to anyone else?  I am so upset.

hey bman.  i sent you an email.  please read it and let me know. 

i read your post on the site about getting rejected for your clearance.  did they specifically say you are being denied a clearance or are unsuitable? did they do your background investigation after your polys ?  did you enter adjudication?  how long did you have to wait from your poly to your rejection letter?  any thing will be appreciated.  let me know.

I was not denied clearance only said I was unsuitable which if your orginal interview went well, how could that be????

do you recall if they had started your background investigation ie calling your friends and neighbors?  did you ever make it into clearance adjudication?

waiting game,

I'm not sure if they started a background check or not.  I was about 8 months into the process when I got the bad news.  What is the clearance adjudication you mentioned?  Feel like I should probably know this.

the background investigation is when they dispatch investigators and contact the people you put down on your SF 86.  this is true for any clearance of that level with any govt agency.  during the BI background investigation someone also meets with you to discuss your SF 86 in person.  this happens after the poly.  did your references ever tell you they were contacted?  did you ever do that?  adjudication is i guess the last stage decision time where someone decides yay or nay

I was also rejected recently from the CIA.  I had my med, psych, and office visit at DD1 (not headquarters).  But I was rejected based on the polygraph, being falsely accused of using countermeasures.  No background check was performed.  If you don't pass the CIA polygraph, then they won't do the background check.  They won't even pull your credit report.  The polygraph is what makes and breaks all applicants.
Being denied suitability is different.  It was likely something on your psych exam (which is the famous MMPI-2 test) or from when you chatted with the shrink.  The shrink may think you are crazy or a risk.  Or maybe the way you acted during the polygraph.  Or maybe they will be sending you your medical report where you find out you have HIV or something (let's hope not), but who knows.  Being denied suitability is like a scapegoat when the Agency just doesn't want to hire you for whatever reason.  The CIA denies people all the time.  Sometimes you know why, other times you'll never know why.  They give multiple Conditional Offers of Employment out for one opening due to the attrition rate during the clearance process.  Who ever is lucky enough to pass the poly and get cleared gets the job.

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