Just Me wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2019 at 10:31am:


I recommend you be careful. If the government perceives you as a threat, they will find some way to bring you down.

I have NEVER heard of anyone successfully appealing a failed employment polygraph with the CIA, or any agency for that matter.  If you read my blog which is linked in my signature, I also had my clearance/SCI-access denied by the CIA based on accusations that I used countermeasures in the pre-employment polygraph back in 2010. I appealed and it took two years before I got a response which was that my appeal was denied.  I appealed that and got denied again, at which point the CIA sent me a letter saying they are "done with me".  I was unable to get cleared by many other agencies for years because of the CIA, including DOD contractors that could not process my clearance because the CIA had their dirty monkey paws in me.  

Fast forward to 2017 when I tried to reapply to the CIA, having obtained a TS/SCI from the Dept of State who does not do polygraphs, and the CIA denied me based on the 2010 incident (so much for that rule of waiting a year to reapply, eh?).  I vehemently oppose the polygraph and I am willing to teach anyone, even tell the world, how to beat it.  This message needs to be disseminated to the public.  I have decided to join the anti-polygraph movement in abolishing polygraphy once and for all.  And I did beat it, I beat the silly FBI polygraph in 2011, one year after my CIA snafu, because I learned how much of a joke it really was.  Check my blog for details. 

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what are you waiting for?  someone to kiss you goodbye?  don't delay, leave today.  May I recommend North Korea or Iran as a destination.  And don't let the boarding gate door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Peety....nope not those guys.  Like you I'd much rather make my money else where and when you complete morons like Dumps family getting clearances at the drop of a hat you know the system is a rigged one.   More power to you...I'd rather crappity smack foreign girls as well and live life!  Wish I was out of the country!!

Well back again after some time and the decision came in.....Drum roll please.  Denied.  It took pretty much 4 years from being walked out HQ to receiving the letter.   They said I could appeal that...LOL...ya right they have made their decision.  Don't bother wasting more money or time.  As far as I'm concerned I never want to work for "Those" people again.  The only misgiving I have is if in the future I try for a clearance at DOD or some other agency....am I forever blacklisted???

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Are you ptrck, the OP?

You can get into another agency with a clearance denial on record.  I know, because I have done it.  Literally just a few years after the first denial based on the polygraph, I was TS/SCI cleared into another agency.  I had no serious issues on records other than false accusations on a polygraph, which was not a concern to my new agency who did not even administer polygraphs themselves.  Just apply to other jobs and go for it, but do not expect to ever get into the CIA, or any other agency where  you failed the polygraph before, even if 10 years have passed.  I know, I am speaking from experience.  You are blacklisted for life from that agency.  By the way, I have since quit government service to do my own thing.

Regarding the appeal, those are just legal formalities to make you feel better.  Most appeals are denied, and the process drags on for so long that most applicants give up or move on, and don't care to spend the money.  That is the goal of these agencies.  It is rare to beat the U.S. federal government in court.  VERY RARE.   

I personally have gone from patriot to rogue.  I am sick of the government control and security clearance bullshit.  I have moved on with my life and will never again give a shit about U.S. government employment.  With my background, computer hacking, there is tons of money to be made and services to provide around the world without sitting on some limited GS payscale and worrying about my clearance all the time.  Criminals and malicious foreign governments will pay me more than the U.S. government ever will, and I know how to hide my tracks and money to avoid law enforcement coming down on me.  Besides, I am out of country anyway.  I can get paid from my laptop in any random part of the world. I'd much rather crappity smack foreign girls, do some drugs, break some laws, not report anything, and live a wild life until I die.  The U.S. government can die slow for all I care.  I respect Snowden, Wikileaks, Anonymous, and other anti-government people. 

Life is short.  crappity smack tyranny, oppression, and government control.  Be free, get paid, and grab your balls when you do so Uncle Sam can know the meaning of crappity smack you.

Well the lawyer finally called after 2.5 years.  Said they like to have my hearing in June.   But it will cost another 7 grand...  I told him I'm going to cut my loses and go no further.  I like how I started to say I was going to pull the plug and he came down to 5 grand.  LOL....And he mentioned applying for an appeal after the hearing....I was like...Ya that's a waste of money.   So after a weekend of thinking I'm just going to have him write me a paragraph or more of how to explain my denial on any future application.  I mean he told me we were crappity smacked months ago and it's mitigation/damage control now....basically showing I'm still a nice person and I don't do anything that I was denied for.   Well it's been over 5 years at this point.  My only issue is that once I'm denied is it from that point I can't apply to any 3 letter place for a year???  Is it from that time I have to wait 5 years??  When I was denied a clearance I thought it was the end of the world and my money making power.  But that's not the case.  Ya you can make more money with a clearance...but it's not necessary and not the end of the world.

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Correct, and the visitors to Langley will have to get an "escort required" badge.

I'm of course aware that Agency scum generally hide behind Foreign Service cover.  I was surprised to learn of the fact that the Agency will disclose the identity of their employees to Foreign Service classes. 

xenonman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 6:19pm:

xenonman wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 6:19pm:


Actually, this is not exactly true.  A clearance from another agency CAN get you into CIA Headquarters and other buildings.  It is well known that the U.S. Department of State is used as a cover for many CIA Officers abroad, where the CIA Officers work under the disguise of Foreign Service Officers, a.k.a. U.S. Diplomats.  In fact, when you join the Foreign Service with the U.S. Department of State, your orientation will include a trip to the CIA where they will tell the real Foreign Service Officers this.  They may even reveal if any CIA Officers have been planted into that Foreign Service Orientation Class!  If you search the internet, you can find some Foreign Service Orientation schedules that show the CIA Visit on there.  NSA staff can get into CIA as well with their clearance as well.  In just about all cases, visitors need to have a visitor's request in from someone that works at CIA, but they can get in with another agency's clearance.

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Yes, the fact that the CIA is a law unto itself is very much to your benefit when applying to other federal agencies, since the Agency doesn't give a damn about what other "three-letter" bodies you contact.

Actually moving from the DC area isn't that bad an idea at all.   It will be so much less expensive elsewhere, and you'll avoid having to travel long distances in interminable traffic over the Beltway or I-66 to get anywhere!
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Of course, how would you ever know if it was in fact the polygraph that disqualified you?  It might have just been some nasty gossip gleaned during the BI from a coworker at some part-time job that you might have held back when you were in high school or college.  Don't forget that nasty comments are inevitably weighed far more  heavily than positive ones, and that information from "developed" informants (ones that you didn't list or authorize as references) is considered much more credible than anything that your listed references might have to say.

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Very good advice!

As I understand it, "security clearance lawyers"  are most helpful if you are already in a position somewhere, and you become required to obtain a clearance at some later point.  If you are then denied that clearance for your EXISTING employment, you do have some legal recourse.

As it was explained to me once by such an attorney, there isn't much that can be done for mere, lowly applicants.

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What exactly did your attorney mean by that?  lol

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Yes, exactly.  The fact that they are off in their own little cloud will be beneficial to you when applying to other agencies.  The Agency doesn't give a damn, since a security clearance from another three-letter racket don't mean sh*t to the nice folks in Langley.

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Yes, the fact that the CIA is a law unto itself works very much to your benefit when applying to other federal agencies, since the Agency doesn't give a damn about what other "three-letter" bodies you contact.  A clearance from another agency don't get you into Langley for a visit anyway.

Actually moving from the DC area isn't that bad an idea at all.   It will be so much less expensive elsewhere, and you'll avoid having to travel long distances to get anywhere!  A clearance from another agency won't admit you to Langley in any case

Hey buddy, don't fret. You will not win your CIA appeal, stop waiting and move on.  You may be blacklisted from the CIA, but that's only the CIA! You can still get clearance from another agency. I know people that have done it. If another agency sees your file and asks about the illegal porn, as you mentioned earlier in this thread, just tell them it is not true and you were tricked and coerced into that false confession.  The silly polygraph game is getting exposed for what it is and security clearance folks know that it is by no means accurate. So yes, you can still get another security clearance. The CIA is in a world of their own.  They don't even use the online e-Qip for the SF86 form because they are scared of OPM hacks. They make applicants fill out the SF86 by hand, mail it in, so some data entry secretary at CIA can enter your clearance info into their own internal system that isn't connected to the internet.

I had a feeling the appealing to the CIA might be a waste of time.  I was told by my lawyer if it was the NSA...he said NO WAY....But because the CIA deals with people OK.....Then he got my files from the agency and when he read one part he was like "were crappity smacked"  and then came up with the only way out is for you to have this come to Jesus moment and I think he was basically telling me when the current job I had with a clearance he told me  you might want to start working else where was a big Que.  Just that my father worked for the bastards in the past and it's more of a thing for him that I clear my name.  I told him I would NEVER work for those people ever and the look of sadness on his face I'll never forget.  My question is if I pull the plug on this appeal stuff what do I do in the future when someone says have you been denied a clearance and you say yes.  I expect never to apply ever again for any clearance job with the Agency blacklist on you...even DoD or some other 3 letter agency.  Or even better...move out of the hypocritical DC area and start over.

ptrck123 wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 10:34pm:


Of course -- that is exactly what keeps the CIA held in such awe by the naive American public.

ptrck123 wrote on Sep 20^th, 2016 at 10:34pm:


When I was naive enough to apply to the CIA for their summer internship program, back in 1979, one of their application papers stated that "employment by the Agency is not a right upon which anyone can insist".

I think that pretty well sums it all up.  I don't know if their current application materials contain that statement, but I would think that attitude still prevails among the jerks at the Offices of Personnel and Security.
Don't waste your time and money dealing with such idiotic jerks!

That is an unusually long time.  The CIA probably won't move any faster  unless you get a lawyer, which would be expensive, and may or may not be worth it since most CIA appeals are just denied again anyway.  This is strange.  I wonder how long other polygraph victims of the CIA had to wait on their appeals lately.

2 to 3 more months and it will have been 3 years since my clearance denial and appeal. The CIA not only wrongfully accused me of wrongdoing for which I am innocent, but they violated my security clearance due process rights of right to a reasonable timely process. I don't expect to hear back from them at all. The CIA is filled with so much fear of We the people, that they need to resort bullying, unlawful interrogation and violation of due process to feel safe and hide their secrets.

Ex Member wrote on Apr 27^th, 2016 at 3:17am:


Try scanning your resume to:  info@svr.gov.ru   

Ex Member wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2016 at 7:47pm:



You would have just wasted a lot of your money for nothing!

Wandersmann wrote on Jan 25^th, 2016 at 2:17pm:



That would be just another waste of time.  (Been there, done that)

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From my experience, I'd say that you would indeed be wasting your time and money.  The CIA is a law unto itself when it comes to personnel and security matters.  Even if you have, in fact, "survived" the polygraph (which you'll never be able to find out one way or another), there is then the obstacle course (or Russian roulette) of the lifestyle BI.  Once a derogatory decision has been made with respect to your application, you are unlikely to be reconsidered for employment until after your 120th birthday.

Well I'm still waiting for my day in court....yes now going on 2 years here soon.  Yes I hired a lawyer who specializes in this and going through the hoops there.  But after reading things here I wonder if it's really worth all the treasure and time.  Yes I had the 4 hr in a small room with 2 people working me  over.  One which was called a scribe (More likely trainee) ....what's worse is they started to interrogate me on the phone before even coming in.  All this from a miss date on the form to begin with.  I like how they went out of the room several times and I said Hi to the camera.....I knew they were watching.  Any ways ...after having one poly and then quickly getting another...yes they made me wait the entire weekend I didn't pass.....I got the good cop and I knew I would get the broom Hilda bad one the next....the only thing I regret is I didn't get to say how much I wanted to shove the polygraph machine up her ass!!!  So do I continue with this show court or ditch it....and I've been told by my lawyer that I would be denied no matter what job I went for unless I had this "Come to Jesus" moment.....Oh and by the way...I'm sure they are looking at everything on here.