I haven't had the opportunity to watch the latest version of this show. I do remember, however, the show that ran in the 70's. It might even been called the same thing. In 1985, I applied for a part-time job and was sent to Hollywood to take a lie-detector test. I remember filling out some forms and listening to a short brief message on tape introducing me to the process, narrated by Ed Gelb. I remember thinking to myself that this place must have shelved out some money to get him to do the audio on the tape. I had taken a test at another location for another job opening so I was familiar with the procedure. After about a 30 minute wait I was ushered into a very nice looking office. Wood paneling, lots of pictures, certificates, and diplomas hanging on the walls. I suddenly realized after seeing his name all over that office that Mr. Gelb himself was somehow involved in my test. I began to get nervous. I don't do well in front of TV personalities. Sure enough, after a few minutes Mr. Gelb walks in and begins the procedure. To end this story, I failed the test, according to him, because I was lying about illegal drug use. He explained that I must be lying because these tests are very accurate. I guess he wanted me to confess. I explained to him that I was uncomfortable about being in front of a TV personality like him. He tried several times to re-administer the test. But every time I got to the part about drugs, I got more nervous. Now, the anxiety about the drug use accusations got me even more nervous. I didn't get the job. I didn't sweat that, it just bugged me that I had failed on account of something I've never done before. Because of my personal experience, I don't belive in the total accuracy of these exams.

TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on Mar 9^th, 2005 at 5:45am:



Must be very typical for a polygrapher to make an assumption and then have his argument fall apart when his prejudicial instincts are proved wrong.

I worked for Ed Gelb when he first started in business. I came from the California Highway Patrol when I started I headed up his investigation division.
  Gelb was located in a small office on Robertson Blvd. in Los Angeles. Ed Gelb was conducting polygraphs long before he was trained at the Baxter School in San Diego.  When I worked for him all he had was his bachelors he never had a masters I would verify that also. Look at his resume it says “he has conducted over 30,000 polygraphs since 1969” what year did he attend the Baxter school? So he has been rendering unskilled and untrained opinions that impacted many people’s lives.
Many innocent people lost their Jobs or weren’t hired, or worse due to Gelb’s incompetence and due to Gelb not being trained and giving opinions on polygraph test results that he had no right to give.
Now look at the Intercept cite it says.
     Intercept Inc.Polygraph Expert Known Around The WorldDr. Edward Gelb, Ph.D., has been detecting lies and verifying the truth since 1956.

A full 13 years earlier then his resume. 

 
Additionally Gelb’s business Intercept was started with $50,000 of money he had received from organized crime, (Check his litigation history) if this were to be known by all of his government buddies I wonder how far he would have made it in lie detection? If you cant trust the person who is giving you the polygraph to tell the truth about his background i.e. his ties to organized crime, his phony PhD. and his conducting polygraphs before he had any formal training. Then how can you possibly trust his test results? The man is a fraud and a liar and should be given No creditability.

U. R. very funny!

Quote:


Sure we do...phrenology, tea-leaf reading, astrology, alchemy, dart-throw, coin-toss, magic 8-ball, guessing, etc.  The point:  a pig wearing lipstick remains a pig.

Dear Mr. Levi,

You wrote, among other things:

Quote:


I have heard from another of the show's guests that "Dr." Gelb's polygraph examination took a total of only about ten minutes from hello to goodbye. The pre-test phase reportedly consisted of the examinee being handed a list of questions to read. Gelb then allegedly instructed the examinee to answer all questions "No" and then ran his polygraph charts. There was no post-test phase. The guest was only told of "Dr." Gelb's diagnosis when the show's host, Rolonda Watts, ambushed the guest with the accusation of being a liar on camera.

Not that polygraphy has any validity to begin with, but even by the generally accepted standards of the polygraph community, no "valid" examination can be conducted in so short a time. Ninety minutes is more typical.

It should be a great embarrassment to the polygraph community that one of its luminaries, a past president of the American Polygraph Association, is not only a phony Ph.D., but also appears to be conducting 10-minute polygraph "tests."

         Ira,

     Do you really expect anyone to believe that you could not figure a polygraph was not going to be used in the segment about you when the show is called  "Lie Detector".  Get Real !

     Further, I have no doubt that a TV show has a release form you signed for an appearance, and that it mentioned such a test too.  While there are many hungry underemployed lawyers in California, many of them settlement whores; I wish you good luck in trying to extort any form of settlement out of the show as such a release form covers them for those who have Buyer's Remorse such as you.   

     Neither You, the host of this website, or anyone else I have read here have any replacement for the ability of the Polygraph.  When you do the world will beat a path to Your door for answers.   

TheNoLieGuy 8) 8)

nolieguy:I am a little confused. I don't remember saying that I had visited the site prior to appearing on the show. I had no reason to because I intended to tell the truth and  believe it or not, had faith in Dr.Gelb's expertise, In fact, we were not informed that the focus of the show was a polygraph test until the day of filming. Prior to that , you are led to believe the show is about being falsely accused of something, where you get an opportunity to talk about the experience and how it affected you (a la DATELINE). A polygraph is not mentioned until the day before travel . But, again, I didn't have a major issue with it nor did I need any tactics to beat a polygraph because I believed that telling the truth was the way to beat it.Period.As for Nolieguy's comments, I have no reason for going on televison to talk about a very serious, 10-year old incident ,that almost devastated my life just to lie. So before you make assertions have some information. In fact, I do not believe that the show's guests are even given a real test. the entire test takes about ten minutes and Dr.Gelb repeats the same  questions 3 times in different ways and forces you to answer 1 question in particular "no" when  you actually want to say "yes". I believe that Dr.gelb and the show's creators arbitrarily pick a certain number to be found liars. since my post, I have been in contact with three other guests who had the same exact experience. What do I plan to do? well, my atttorney can answer that better than me. One option is definitely a class-action situation.Too soon to tell. As for your assumptions about my heritage: ira Levi is my real name but I am African-american.

Ok, I will acknowledge your existence again assumptionguy.  Sex offenders and disgruntled former candidates may indeed navigate the board on this site.  However, you forgot to mention a few others that include current police officers, government workers, polygraph examiners, and those with some desire to simply know more about polygraphy.  I too am a tax payer and I no longer wish to finance this ridiculous type of testing.  It should be noted that American Medical Association, various psychological associations, and the National Academy of Sciences all find pre-employment polygraph screening to be of little to no value.  The people that make up these groups have proven their worth through a dedication to education, research and SCIENCE.  Polygraph examiners cannot claim the same.  You would seem to provide the examiners with your absolute confidence simply because they are the "truth police."  Have they personally earned your confidence or is it easily attainable?  Our government, in case you forgot, enacted the EPPA.  It needs to be expanded.

Your attention span and memory must be short even though you had the materials at hand to read what I had written.  I wrote that there was the possibility of FALSE POSITIVE.  Never did I assert that iralevi's polygraph failure could only have been due to a false positive.  There are a number of different factors which can cause a reaction on the charts.  Ask a medical professional if you need reassurance.  The physiological responses recorded by the polygraph are not symptomatic of only deception.

As for my profession, no it is not perfect.  However if I provided my services with an acceptability rate akin to accuracy rates I would be unemployed, unhirable and be subject to license revocation.  My resume is impressive for my profession, although not for one of a poly artist.

As to your comment regarding your total trust of the government.  Surely you do not assert that the government is perfect.  How could it be?  None of our elected officials have been required to be subjected to polygraph testing which you hold in so exhalted a regard.  So therefore we cannot be certain that they are honorable and working in the publics best interests.

Bitch slapped?  No.  Laughing due to your empty threat?  Yes.  Your intelligence is highly suspect.  In one sentence you would seem to hold some level of intelligence.  However, in the next you spew infantile threats.  Continue to assume and be surprised when you dicover your error.  Keep believing everything you see, read and are told without doing any investigation for yourself. 

If you would care to make further threats toward me, please use the personal message feature.  That way I can reply in kind and quite possibly arrange for your dreams to come true.

     Hello Again,

   Okay, Let's ask Ira !  But then again Ira's ability to tell the truth is in itself in question !  What method would you recommend we use to explore that ? Any substitutes for polygraph ?

   From my research on the Web I found that the CIA is begging to hire polygraph examiners, and they had no age limit, which is rare in federal hiring.  Further, of the people who do this for a living, they seem to have solid backgrounds themselves.  I just can't believe they they would waste their careers on something that just did not work, or get them to a place of confidence in determining if someone was telling the truth.  I don't think such testing is 100% accurate 100% of the time, but do think it meets the level of statistical significance.  Further, even if you don't like the people who do these tests; their attitudes or bedside manner, the technology appears to be improving which is noteworthy in and of itself.  I looked into this field a long time ago, and thought it would be interesting work.  However, one must usually be a Police Detective or mid to upper level rank in law enforcement to be sponsored to such a school, or well placed in the Intel community to go to such a school.  I found that private examiner types exist, but usually come into the private sector from the former two catagories. 

From my reading of this site, many or most of the contributors are those who are convicted sex offenders, or disgruntled individuals who were not hired whether they passed their test or not.  There are also mulitiple others who are prospective future test subjects; all of whom admittedly want to "Cheat" to get in.  I would also assume they would apply the same mindset to future endeavors as well.  Character is an issue in life, and they seem to need a larger dose of it.  It made me wonder what measure they would have for hiring of others which would provide a better screening ability for we taxpayers who foot the bill ?

Further, you seem over protective of Ira for some reason.  He knew what he was getting into.  You accuse me of "Presuming" when it is you who take him at face value with your zealot belief that it MUST BE a False Positive.  Is this type of testing EVER right ?  I think there are just too many confirmed charts to say it has no value.  Ira is free to go out in the open marketplace and get his own test done, and maybe use this site's countermeasures too.    

In closing, and despite the strong anti-polygraph views you hold; the public is split on this one, as well as our political system.  We are uncomfortable with this technology in the wrong hands, but know we need it or fully perceive we do.  Only a substitute showing equal or superior capabilities would replace it.  Focus your efforts on finding that replacement, as the world will beat a path to your door for having a better system.  Like the old saying Lead, Follow, or get Out of the Way ! You have no answers, only questions.  You and those like you come off like a snot nosed little kid who everyone gets tired of and eventually ignores or wants punished.  Grow Up and enter the real world.  There is Truth and Deception in this world, and there are those who work in that field with equal dedication to whatever you do for a living.  Everytime I hear or read about you guys dissing these people, I wonder what it is that you do that is so perfect professionally.  I would venture to say that whatever it is you do, these folks probably have a better resume than you, even prior to their entering their field, than you do yours.  Am I asssuming---Yes.  Why, because those folks are time tested and proven (Government Circles), and you are an unknown unproven entity to me and those on this site.    

I rest well tonight knowing that I have intelectually bitch slapped you, and only wish I could do it in person.

TheNoLieGuy4U 

I saw the show the other night (not sure if you were on it), and it was amazing that 1, being able to tell the different types of questions,  and two knowing the little game the examiner was playing. Reading the downloads from this site made a big difference. I feel for you on your test, but remember to make ratings they want you to be controversial and fail.   EJ

Thenolieguy4u,

Conclusions and assumptions must be your forte.  No where in the post from iralevi did I note the mention of prior visits or mentions of first visits to antipolygraph.org, nor did I note the mention of countermeasures or computerized polygraph testing.  Your assumptions can only lead one to believe that you must have some vested interest (quite possibly income) in polygraph testing.  Your post also would lead me to believe that you aggressively defend this type of "science" due to some form of brainwashing which you have undergone.  Please provide your ethnic background in order that some perveyor of stupidity such as yourself can make assumptions based on name alone.

As I have posted before in lowly terms, less than 100% is worth a bucket of shit.  The readings recorded by the machine are completely scientific, no argument there.  However, the interpretation is purely "art."  A heart monitor can be interpreted as showing heart activity when in actuality it is nothing more that residual electrical activity in a deceased person.  Ask any medical practicioner worth his/her salt.  Polygraph interpretors generally have little if no medical or scientific background.  If they did there would be more stringent educational and licensure requirements.

If you have any information to combat the truth provided on this site by all means post.  If you prefer a childish attack based on false information and assumptions, your opinion is unnecessary.  I could make all the assumptions in the world based on your post, however I prefer and demand further information before out and out calling someone on the carpet.

By the way you forgot the other possiblity...FALSE POSITIVE...idiot.

Ira,

Should we really believe that this is your first visit to AntiPolygraph.org ?  Knowing that you were going to take such a test with the noted Dr. Gelb would have provided you with easy search engine ability to have visited here before.   

It made me wonder !  Why didn't the countermeasures work for you ?  Also, you would not be complaining about the computer polygraph at all if you had passed their test !  You can't have it both ways !  Either you lied about your involvement in some way, or the countermeasures / attempts to beat the test did not work for you.  No other technology exists which could get you / us any closer to the truth in your case, so what do you plan to do now ?  By the way, I noted your ancestry as from the holy land based on your ethnic name.  Did you know that the Israeli Shinbet and Mossad use the same technology ?   

Regards,

TheNoLieGuy4U
8) 8) ???

Dear Mr. Levi,

Thank you for sharing your experience with the producers of "Lie Detector" here. I note that you had also posted this to Pax TV's message board for its "Lie Detector" show, but that your post there has been deleted:

http://messageboard.pax.tv/index.cfm?frmid=51

Note that "Dr." Ed Gelb obtained his "Ph.D." degree from an unaccredited diploma mill:

http://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-036.shtml

It is unfortunate that Pax-tv would be associated with such a shabby and irresponsible production. It is also unfortunate that a former journalist like Rolanda Watts has become so desperate for work that she has accepted such a shameful gig. I recently filmed an episode of 'Lie Detector and was treated to an experience that was hurtful and unnecessarily demeaning. 11 years ago I was accused of a crime and was eager for the opportunity to tell my story. I submitted to the polygraph test with Dr. Gelb because he is considered an expert in the field. After telling my story to an" empathetic" Rolanda, she reveals the results of my polygraph. She says Dr.Gelb determined that I was a liar and guilty of the original crime. It is difficult to explain how I felt because I was telling the 100% truth and never committed any crime. Only after speaking with other guests and researching Dr.Gelb's background and tecnique did I realize that I was drawn into a carefully constructed plan. The ironic part is that during the break, Rolanda and I discussed the lack of integrity in televison! Anyone who knows me and knows my story will be confident that I could never commit this crime. We are now forced to go to court and contest Dr.Gelb's evaluation-which is either false or grossly inaccurate. The producers refused to give me a second polygraph which I requested. It is high time that these upstart reality shows take time to seek the truth and not take advantage of sincere people. What did I do to deserve being called a "liar" and a robber simply because I wanted to share my experience with being falsely accused of a crime? What guilty person would subject themselves to that experience? The show's creators, Mark Philips Philms and Telephision, has a reputation for creating trash-tv but the premise of this show is actually good. Why not carry it through? Is it necessary to ambush guests with false polygraph results? I would think Ms.Watts would be more interested in the truth than how her legs look on camera (that seemed to be her concern during the flming). More importantly, Dr.Gelb, a professional polygraph -for-hire, is responsible for testing government employees,etc. The man is clearly incompetent. The show is simply ridiculous. The producers are foolish enough to believe that genuinely innocent people like myself are going to accept their obvious shenanigans and allow our experiences to be used for tv fodder. We are planning a protest of the show via write-ins and an actual protest rally but , for some reason, I believe the show won't be a success and the universe will not allow this blatant disrespect for truth and justice to prosper. Shame on all involved particularly Dr. Gelb. 

ira levi