Hey, I am a victim of a crime- assault and rape!  I  gave my statement to authorities, he gave his.  HE denied all till 2 weeks later, then admitted the act, but said it was consensual.  SO, it is his word against mine.  SO local Sheriff says take CVSA.  I agreed.  No problem  But refused to sign release form.  SO, charges dropped due to MY lack of cooperation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am the victim here.  I told the truth, he did not!  Pics of bruises on my body taken by local police department.  I did NOT give consent for bruises being left on my body!  I told them I would take CVSA, but would not sign release, which is MY right!  Victims obviously have none here.

Er, not so fast.

From personal experience I can tell you that they WILL share every aspect of that polygraph with not just other government intelligence agencies but other government agencies.

In my case extremely sensitive information about my private sexual history was shared with another agency, even though I had done nothing illegal or that indicated a mental health problem.

I too was led to believe the information would be respected, guarded and treated with sensitivity.  Which is why I answered questions which were really none of their business with candor and complete honesty.

Remember, the goal of these polygraph interviews is to get people to give out information they otherwise would not.  And giving out deceptive assurances as to what will happen to the information is part of their method and in my opinion, completely unethical.

Hi everyone,

Ok so this is what I've been told about all of these issues so far...

(1) FBI confidentiality
The FOIA is indeed only for the individual seeking information kept about themselves.  Other individuals, or future employers cannot see the information (except other government intelligence agencies).  I was told that even for FBI employees, when they apply for other jobs all that will show up was whether they did in fact work for the FBI or not.  In my case, I was only applying for an internship position and have not been officially accepted - so no information will turn up at all.

The only way the FBI releases the information is if it subpoenaed.  This is confidential information - just like medical records, it is not something that can be accessed by the public or even private companies.

(2) Future Polygraphs
After a polygraph exam, the polygrapher sends the results, along with his recommendation/interpretation of the results, to HQ.  HQ then decides whether to agree with the polygrapher or not.  If they do, you have to go through the official appeal process - in which you may get the option to retest.  If they do not agree with the polygrapher, the results are deemed inconclusive, and you are automatically invited back for another test.

This is what I know so far.  I do think it is strange, however, that the FBI is still conducting my background check even though I haven't passed my polygraph.  It isn't a problem, of course, it doesn't matter to me at all.  It just seems a tad inefficient to me.   

But anyway, thank you again for all your responses.  I learn more everyday it appears.

Best regards,
Val

Zippy,
I dont' think you  understand the FBI hiring process.  That's it - after a failed poly, there is no more.  All Valerie can do now is wait for her "offer rescinded" letter  and appeal.

"Let me start out by saying that I am so relieved to have found this site.  My dismal experience with the FBI polygraph was a mere 7 hours ago.  I am so shocked and upset that I haven't had a bite to eat all day and feel physically and emotionally drained."
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First off, you will be called back for another poly.  This is the game they play.  Your poly ended the same way every poly I ever took ended.  They want to see how you will react to this.  Stay cool.  I can almost guarantee you I am right.  He tipped his hand when he said “no drug test, your test is over”.  You will have to take a drug test sometime during the hiring process.  You stuck to your guns and did not admit to something that you did not do just to please the examiner.  He/she knows you’re telling the truth.  No one gets in, or disqualified, based on one poly exam.  If you really have your heart set on joining that pack of sick dogs, hang in there.  They are going to call you back for more fun.  Who knows, you may be the one who fixes that mess of an agency.       

I took my first poly back in the late 60’s.  If you believe that poly, I raped my mother on many occasions, and enjoyed sexual relations with animals.  You think I’m kidding?  I’m not.  I looked at him like he had two heads when he tried to discuss this with me.  He acted like he was mad, mad, mad at me.  He appeared to be furious with me, demanding I tell him the truth about "me and mom".  I left thinking to myself, will I guess that is that.  I’m a goin’ into the infantry. Three poly exams later I got the position I was going for (Army Intelligence).  I know, I know, oxymoron.      

At 54 years of age, I took another entrance poly and the examiner tried to tell me there was DI on my answers about pot.  (It's always drugs these days - back in the 60's it was sex with mom and animals)  I haven’t smelled pot in over thirty years.  Again, I just laughed and asked her if she knew how ridiculous and obvious this game was.  She smiled at me and told me if I couldn’t tell the truth I would not get the job.  One poly later, guess where I’m working.  Yep.

Relax kid.  They aren’t finished with you yet.  Don’t ever sweat a poly.  The poly doesn’t work, and they know it.  It’s there for intimidation.  Had you changed your story, you'd be out the door for good. Unless the examiner saw something else that  made him believe you were not a good fit, you will be invited back.  In the mean time, try to find honest work.

Don't let us die not knowing how long it took to call you back.         

Johnn wrote on Feb 14^th, 2006 at 4:56pm:


Johnn,

You're right. The poly results are made available to the applicant at his request under the Privacy Act. All records on file with the FBI that pertain to the requestor must be made available to him or her. However, information regarding a third party can be excluded and withheld from release. Another person requesting your records under FOIA would not be allowed access to them because of an unwarranted invasion of your privacy, but some entities can be granted access to the information, such as the federal govt. and LE. 

Bill, 

I think Valerie may have been referring to the agent telling her others wouldn't find out about the results because they're confidential. However, as you alluded, that is not the case when it comes to other federal agencies and LE agencies as they can be granted access. I also had an agent try to tell me that failing the agency's polygraph was no big deal. They want applicants to think that, so they're easier to get rid of. 

Bill, 
Is that so?  I mean, isn't it like a health matter where the patient has a right to his own records, as opposed to someone asking for someone else's records?

In any case, I'm going to write a second letter contesting their results - only so that whoever receives my file will also see my letters.

by the way, the FBI agent is lying to you (gasp)
the Polygraph information is not Strictly confidential or Top Secret or any of that horseshit. You can get it by filing a FOIA request. No subpeona or federal charges required. I did it as have many other on this site and got my poly charts, interviews and everything else mailed to me in about 8 weeks. The FBI lady knows this but feels the need to feed you yet another line of bullshit for some unknown reason.

Sorry, not my most professional post, but sometimes I get to thinking about it again and its just raw anger

GD, SOB--its been almost a year since my last failure and I'm just as pissed now as I was then.

Val--I'm so sorry.  I'm the one who posted "Hubby failed CIA Poly" and it truly stinks.  My hubby is a wonderful man who, like yourself, has NEVER touched drugs, etc.  He "failed" his first test, but then discovered that it wasn't a real "failure"--instead, they wanted him to return for more interrogation a week later.  He actually "passed" the next polygraph, but has now become so disillusioned with the CIA that he plans to "get the clearance and run."  By this I mean that he's been "waiting" for this job for over 15 months, and blew off several other career opps in the process.  At this point, his income potential will basically double with the clearance.  After he gets it, he plans to put in as little time at "the farm" as possible, and then get the heck outta there.  It's a nasty organization, and the whole process has left us feeling quite "tainted" and dirty.  I'm disgusted, and I'm so sorry that you had to be filthied in the manner that you were.  I swear, the whole polygraph experience has a lot in common with rape, IMHO.

Dear rickeygs, 
 
I think it depends on what kind of law you go into.  I can tell you that in my law class alone there are people from so many different backgrounds with so many different stories to tell.  We have white, black, asian, heterosexual, homosexual, young, middle-aged, and old (a 65 year old woman just starting law school).   
 
There are certainly firms that foster the "good 'ol boy" beliefs and practices.  But there are many more firms that do not.   
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that an employer will not hire or fire you for your beliefs, or for things you have done in the past (to a certain extent of course).  It is all about whether you are good at your job or not, and that's what counts.

You stated you are going into law instead of joining the FBI. I hope you realize the law community is also a club whereby your present beliefs will be sorefully tested. In law it is not whether a person is guilty or innocent, it is about winning and losing.

Dear Valerie,

I know the awful feeling of being falsely accused of lying and having your reputation attacked.

Please appeal in writing.  It might not change the outcome but at least your appeal and letter of disagreement with polygraph findings will let the FBI know that they lost another qualified candidate due to this insanity of trust in this machine.

The FBI has too many people in high places who blindly believe in the polygraph.   Every appeal letter adds to a stack of public opinion of ex-applicants who will not think highly of the FBI or its mission for the rest of their lives.

I do everything I can to educate people on the grave shortcomings of polygraph examination under the current FBI guidelines.  I would not have any friends or family apply to any law enforcement agency who believes in the validity of the polygraph for pre-screening applicants.   

Try and get some sleep, pick yourself up, and get on with a few certified letters to the person who wrote your "not within acceptable parameters."

The FBI application process is not within acceptable pararmeters.

Regards.

I am sorry to hear what happened to you. These FBI polygraphers are a bunch of self righteous a-holes. Hearing your story makes me angry all over again.

(you can read my story on the personal statements section of the site, it is very similar to yours)-but they accused me of selling also. Idiots. 

Again, thank you for your responses.  I have been feeling a little better today.  After speaking with the agent that interviewed me, she said that this polygraph information is strictly confidential and can only be released if the individual is charged with a crime and the FBI is subpoenaed for the information.  I have now moved past the "upset" crying stage into more of an anger stage. 

After reading so many posts, I am upset not only because the FBI and other agencies are turning down well-qualified people, but also because of these horrible experiences that they are putting innocent people through.  Whether a person passes a polygraph or not is one thing, but to be subjected to abuse on the part of the polygrapher is simply unacceptable.  I know that I am decent human being as are so many other people on this site.  I am not a criminal and in no way deserved the treatment I received yesterday.  The more I read regarding this matter, the more disgusted I am.

Valerie,

I concur with polyfool. You should definitely contest the polygrapher's opinion in writing. You don't want the last thing in your FBI file to be your polygrapher's uncontested false accusation that you lied.

But as polyfool also noted, while the FBI will often grant "re-tests," it is only to create the illusion of fairness. The results are foreordained: FBI applicants almost always "fail" the second time, too. In terms of institutional politics, the FBI's polygraphers simply cannot afford to be seen reversing more than a handful of polygraph decisions.

What the FBI did to you (and many others, including myself) was deeply wrong, and I hope you'll consider working with us to put an end to polygraph screening. Misplaced governmental reliance on this pseudoscience is harming not only individuals such as ourselves, but is also undermining national security.

For background on polygraph validity, policy, and procedure, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

Valerie,

I read your post and couldn't help but reply. Your polygraph examiner sounds a lot like my first one. There are several similarities in his routine as well as some of the things he said to you. I know it must be especially difficult on you because your experience is so recent. At least you know the truth about polygraphs which I'm sure will come  in handy for your future clients in terms of the advice that you give them. The FBI is passing up a lot of great talent because of the polygraph. Whatever you do, don't let your examiner get the best of you--he's not worthy of it. Once a little time has passed and everything is put into proper perspective, you'll be very glad you didn't end up in an agency foolish enough to depend on the polygraph to help it select "the best and the brightest."    

I strongly encourage you to appeal your results. Even though, there is virtually zero chance of you passing a retest if one is granted, don't make it easy on the agency to get rid of you. What the agency is doing to people is not right and it should have to answer for it. Humans are not expendable. Imagine the impact if every applicant found "not within acceptable parameters" appealed their results.

Valerie,

We do all feel your pain, use this experience to spread the word on your campus, on how vile a thing a polygraph interrogation really is. You have proved again  that everytime they burn an honest person, they increase the numbers of those that join the antipolygraph movement. Welcome and I hope we can help you. I finish law school up later this year. So hang in there, and fully realize that you don't need to succumb to any organization that believes your guilty until polygraphed honest. I wouldn't even bother contesting it, as quite a few folks on this board can attest. You will be done in long before you even set foot in the next polygraph room.

Regards  ....

Thank you everyone for all of your kind words.  After some more crying, and eating a slice or two of pizza, I feel a little better.  While I am still in a state of shock about what has happened today, I am willing to move on (but not after a fight with the FBI first of course).  I never knew this problem was so widely spread.  As a law student, I have always been a little skeptical of the accuracy of lie detector tests, but now I am thoroughly convinced.   

I have confided in my close friends about the events that occurred today and they are surprised to say the least.  I don't think they will ever want to intern or work for the federal government after listening to what I told them today.  I haven't worked hard all my life to be falsely accused by an old bitter FBI agent.  Like what other people have said, I will attempt to appeal and clear my name, but whether I pass or not, I will not take this internship.  It simply isn't worth it.   

Thank you again.

Valerie, 
Thank you very much for posting your experience.   
It really helps the rest of us overcome this terrible trauma.  Read my experience - I also failed on the same reason you did - the drug usage, even though I've never - not once have done any drug in my entire life.

I actually had the nerve to retake the test again - you can read my experience under "MY FBI polygraph retest".  On the second test, they failed me on everything - from drug usage to lying on my application.

Amazing, I was really looking forward to starting a new conservative career - instead, I walked away feeling like a lying crack addict.
I'm beginning to  doubt that the FBI uses the polygraph the way it was meant to be used... sometimes I get the impression that they fail people on purpose depending on if you don't exactly fit their image.

Valerie -- very sorry to hear of your unfavorable experience with the FBI -- it is one that I and others on this board share with you. You obviously already realize that you are talented and smart and that you can just as easily apply your skills and intelligence more productively elsewhere.

I think you did the right thing by immediately putting to paper your thoughts on your encounter with the FBI and sharing them here. Not only is it cathartic, but helps to illustrate the treatment the FBI gives to qualified, patriotic applicants willing to sacrifice to serve their country.

What is significant to me about what you wrote is that your treatment at the hands of the FBI is so similar to what I experienced. It took me a year to reconcile myself with the reality that our goverment could be so dysfunctional, uncaring, destructive -- and so unreal.

We just don't encounter such "twilight zone" situations like being told we have failed a polygraph in our normal, everyday lives at school or in the private sector. This makes it even harder to convey to people who haven't been polygraphed that you really aren't a liar.

But I think what you've written here will help dispel some of that destructive mystique that these evil -- yes, EVIL -- polygraphers have come to rely on as they drive away throngs of able young Americans from dedicated service to their country. Good for you -- and lasting shame upon them.

valerie

Please read "Hubby failed CIA polygraph" (right now is the 7th. post down). After you have studied my answers, then send me a private email through this site and tell me what you think. I realize you are in the beginning stages of law school, but I have some questions that probably your professor can answer. You might be able to find the answers yourself. I am not a lawyer but, I have studied federal law extensively (library and computer) and have had a little pro se experience in that area. I have been told that federal law is a horse of a different color. I find it easier to understand than the mish-mash state laws and codes. Sometimes I wonder how the lawyers, who write state laws and codes, passed the BAR.

Let me start out by saying that I am so relieved to have found this site.  My dismal experience with the FBI polygraph was a mere 7 hours ago.  I am so shocked and upset that I haven't had a bite to eat all day and feel physically and emotionally drained.

I am a law student at a top 100 law school.  On a career services day, they said the FBI had an "honors" internship program.  I was thrilled, and thought it sounded great.  My first summer after law school would be the FBI!  I submitted my application, and out of about 80 applicants, I was one of 15 to be called back for an interview.  Eventually, I was selected as the candidate from the field office to attend the program.  Again, I was very happy, and had complete faith and respect for the FBI.

Well, today I had my scheduled polygraph test.  My friends had joked with me earlier saying, "Every answer is going to be a lie because you are so nervous."  This is the truth, I get nervous very easily, but I had faith that I would get through the polygraph with no problem as I've never done anything.  I don't smoke, don't drink, and have never even seen drugs.   

Special Agent A, as I will call him, introduced himself to me in a kind of unfriendly way.  I don't know how to pinpoint it, but I was even more nervous at that point. He led me to the polygraph room which had a two-way mirror, the polygraph chair, a regular chair, and his desk with the equipment.  He told me what the polygraph was for - to make sure liars, cheaters, and theives are not admitted into the FBI.  I shook my head in understanding - I, of course, was none of those things.

He hooked me up and I was feeling my heart beat accelerate.  He then did a "practice exam" which consisted of me writing the number 4 on a piece of paper, he then wrote the numbers 1,2,3,5,6.  He then told me to lie about me writing the number four.  The equipment was started, and the blood pressure sleeve tightened around my arm - making me yet more uncomfortable.  I answered all the questions and he told me that he could conclude I was lying about writing down the number 4.  I smiled and said, "ok," as I thought that was pretty nifty that the machine was so sensitive.   

I went through the first part of the exam ok (dealing with terrorist organizations), and I proceeded to the second phase - this is where things took a turn for the worse.  He asked me several times, "Have you violated the FBI's guidelines regarding illegal substances?"  I said No each time, as it is the complete God's honest truth.  I am 22 and have never seen, smelled, or done drugs.  I was raised Catholic, and it is very deeply ingrained in me never to do anything like that.  Not only that, but severe asthma runs in my family, and I would never risk putting my health in jeopardy.   

After the second phase, he told me he would be back, and left the room for a while.  It had to have been 10 mins or so.  He then came back in and unhooked me.  He made me sit directly across from him, and he told me, "you failed the polygraph."  According to the polygraph, I had used drugs.  I was crushed, and immediately started to get emotional.  I said, "I've never done anything, that is the truth."  He then started saying, "you're lying, just admit it and then we can move on, you're only applying for an internship position, we make allowances for young college students, just admit it."  I had tears in my eyes and said, "I'm not going to admit to doing something that I have not done."  He said, "I can tell by the way you're acting that you're lying to me."

He asked me if I ever "smelled" marijuana.  I said, no, never (which again is the truth - I have lived a kind of sheltered life, and none of my friends ever did anything either).  He raised his eyebrows and made a face, "Now I know you're lying," he said with his voice rising, "no college student goes through life without smelling marijuana."  I said that I didn't know what else to tell him, I never smelled, smoked, drank, or did anything.   

I was a straight A student in high school and college, having graduated near the top of my class from a mid-atlantic university, and am now in law school on a scholarship.  I am, if anything, deathly afraid of drugs as I know they are such a bad thing.  One of my employers committed suicide a few years ago after an addiction to pain killers.  I never knew what possessed people to even try drugs in the first place.

Anyway, he kept on pressing me for an explanation - one which I could not give.  He said, "What about taking things to make you stay awake for studying?"  Again, I was shocked.  I never pull all-nighters in school, and I have never ever taken anything to keep me awake.  I always try to have my work done ahead of time.

The interrogation lasted for a while, how long exactly I am not sure - probably an hour.  I told him, "I'll take a drug test right now and prove that I don't do drugs."  He replied, "No, you're not taking the drug test, the test is over.  You're going to throw away your internship because you can't be honest."  He then led me out of the building.  I called my mother, hysterical crying about what had just happened.

I have very strong principles and values and have always prided myself in the fact that I uphold those values.  I had never been accused like I was today, and he really made me feel as if I was a criminal.  I am told my letter from HQ will come in 2-4 weeks.  I will appeal, but I will never take this internship.  I can't believe that the FBI relies on this machine.  After working my whole life to avoid drugs, smoking, drinking, it was all for nothing.  I know now that the FBI is certainly not for me, I will just get a regular summer internship at a law firm.  But for anyone about to take the FBI polygraph, be careful, it has been one of the worst experiences of my life.  I know the truth though, and so does my family, and I suppose in the end, that's all that matters.