Collectivist wrote on Feb 27^th, 2006 at 8:09pm:


The question about lying to a supervisor is indeed a probable-lie "control" question. You'll find "control" questions commonly used by the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies listed in DoDPI's Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test examiner's guide:

http://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-lepet.pdf

Looking at the list of questions in original post.... 
Is "Have you ever lied to a supervisor?" a control question?
Is it something almost eveyone has done?
Or is it something that the FBI would definitely not want a candidate to do?

Quote:



Thats really not what I wanted to hear.  I'll wait and stew I guess.  Thanks for the response.

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No, if you were told you reacted to this and grilled about it, you were inconclusive at best or you failed.

polyfool wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 5:20am:


I see.  As if the applicant grew up in a public housing project, then they must've experimented with drugs, for example.  How moronic.

Johnn wrote on Jan 17^th, 2006 at 5:36pm:


Johnn,

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that the FBI will release anything through FOIPA that will leave it open to a challenge. By the time you get your hands on your polygraph results, they will be so heavily redacted that no one will be able to make heads or tails of them. All of the questions are redacted, so you won't ever even know which questions you reacted to or have any idea of a score. 

I don't think examiners have qualms about failing anyone. The so-called test is subjective, requiring an OPINION to arrive at a result. Human bias plays a part even though it may be unintentional on the part of the examiner.

polyfool wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 4:19am:


Hi Poly,
Do you think that the examiner would take the risk of excluding a minority using the polygraph?  I ask because the applicant can always get his charts and ask an outside "professional"  polygrapher to review the charts and then claim discrimination if the charts are not found deceptive.  

EosJupiter,

I'm probably the last person in the world who would take up for the FBI, but I gotta say, I think you are wrong on this one. After undergoing the agency's pre-employment process, I honestly do not believe the FBI is using the polygraph to skirt fair labor laws.  I think it comes down to an agency afraid of hiring would-be spies and it's looking for ways to prevent their infiltration. Because it's using a faulty system to do that, it's cutting loose innocent, qualified, valuable applicants--the best and the brightest, as they say--and perhaps letting in the very types of people it's  seeking to keep out. That faulty system which includes examiner biases, would be expected to keep out a fair amount of minorities. Now, having said that, just because its heart is in the right place, doesn't make what the agency is doing to people right in any way. In essence, it's shooting itself in the foot.

8675309 wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 9:58pm:


If your polygrapher did not directly accuse you of deception, then I think you may have passed.

So what are all of your impressions?  Do you think its possible to be bluffed and told you are registering high and still pass?  Or do you think if you are told you registered high they already know you are going to fail and just want a confession for vindication.  I had nothing to confess so by the point I was getting accused it was out of my hands.

I agree its conjecture on my part, I am making my opinion from seeing alot of very talented folks who have law degrees and criminal science backgrounds. Never even make it past the initial screen for one reason or another, or get  blown out by the poly. Bias on my part, but of course. And Opinion, oh yeah. But I have never been one to hide my opinions. 

Regards ...

EosJupiter wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:30am:


Esos,
Thanks for responding.   

I understand that every employer, including the FBI most likely wants the best, etc, but what I don't understand is that with the FBI, you submit your credentials even before phase II testing.  Don't you think that it would be the perfect opportunity to weed out the undesirables at that point, instead of wasting money on airplane tickets and hotel stays as is the case during phase II?

I'm not defending the FBI's hiring practices either, but I feel that this particular point doesn't make sense. (Not that using a polygraph test makes sense either, but I feel that the perfect time for getting rid of the undesirables is after phase I - when all credentials were already made known to the DOJ)

EosJupiter,

You write in part:
Quote:
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Although I have little regard for the FBI's polygraph  screening program for applicants, I saw (while a Bureau employee) no evidence of a conspiracy between human resources and the Bureau's polygraph examiners and program managers  to utilize polygraphy to wrongfully manipulate the process that determines who is hired and who  is not.  I find the same to be highly unlikely now.  What I  believe to be likely the case (and the problem) involves the wanton  and reckless use of a diagnostic technique that produces widespread but largely  random error across the population of examinees and question areas.

Johnn

For every open agent billet, they receive on average 300 applications a month. Numbers are an approximation, but I believe they are in the realm of reality. They will disqualify for various reasons most of those persons for everything from Legal altercations to bad credit, and the ones that are not top on there selection list they will disqualify with the polygraph. From that position they will wittle down the applicants to the top five. From there they will select. Its a sellers market and the FBI can be as choosey as they want. And as devious in getting rid of the un-desireables from the selection process. Colleges, accreditations (law school, accounting school)  They tout only wanting the best. And as long as there are folks that are willing to put up with process, it will continue.

Regards

EosJupiter wrote on Jan 13^th, 2006 at 7:00am:



Esos,
How do you think the FBI decides which applicants they want and which ones they dont want?  What do you think  they look at to make that decision?

8675309, 

If you weren't already picked, you didn't stand a chance. They make it look like a fair hiring practice, but its not. They already know and selected what applicants will pass and which ones won't. They just use the polygraph to skirt the fair hiring and labor laws. DOn't feel bad and welcome to the website. Another dissatisfied customer of the malevolent FBI polygraph squad. Your not alone ....   good luck 

Regards

Yea I figure they just flip a coin and if its heads you are going to fail that day and tails you will pass. 

Sounds exactly like how my test went.  The examiner said that I showed a reaction to the drug usage problem and asked me to confess and that the charts definitely dont look too good.   I didn't confess to anything because there was nothing to confess about.

Three weeks later, I received the offer rescinded letter.

Ok I took the FBI polygraph within the last few weeks and did not come away with a good feeling.  Doing some checking I found this site - of course too late as I'm sure everyone says.

I was told I had a very strong reaction to the drug question.  I was given a chance to try to explain why and told that the outlook was not good, but if I confessed that would be duly noted when the report was sent to headquarters.  Since I easily fit within the drug policy, there is no reason other than general nerves why I would show a response to the question.

I left not knowing whether I failed or passed - hopefully they were bluffing and just tried to get me to admit.  But seeing as the failure rate is 50%, I am not going to hold my breath on getting a passing score.  I now can see why this "test" is a complete crock of shit.

If anyone is interested, here is the complete list of questions asked (some are paraphrased but you get the idea):

1) Have you ever stolen anything?
2) Have you ever cheated?
2) Have you ever lied to a loved one?
3) Have you ever lied to a supervisor?
4) Have you had any contact with a foreign gov't?
5) Do you abuse alcohol?
6) Did you make any omissions intentionally on your application?
7) Do you fall within the FBI guidelines on drugs?
8) Are you a member of any terrorist organization?

I think that was most of them- I was also given the card trick where I picked a card and was told to say no everytime I was asked.

Hopefully this information helps someone else!