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Topic Summary - Displaying 24 post(s).
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 7th, 2005 at 4:05pm
  Mark & Quote
Well obviously NOPD has demonstrated that the polygraph is not a good tool at eliminating officers who will become corrupt or even at catching them prior to employment.   

Yes, the polygraph is a great tool at eliciting confessions, but it is failing miserably for the NOPD.   

Ultimately, I think the pay structure of the department that is having the undesriable effect.  You get what you pay for and when you don't pay then you get crap officers who breed miscontent and corruption.

In a similar comparison of cities populations close to that of New Orleans (or what it had) one can see the following discrepancy in pay from year 1 to year 30, as well as the cost of living compared to NO.

Austin           42,000-  74,762  +7%
El Paso         30,500-  49,812   -1%
Charlotte      32,214-  52,474   -10%
Memphis       40,500-  47,654    +1%
New Orleans 29,978-  34,797   

As you can clearly see the pay for NO sucks, there is no kind way of putting it.  $30,000 is great money for a 23 year old without a family, but how the heck is a 45 year old with a family supposed to live off of $35,000 with over 20 years in on the force?   

Posted by: polyscam - Ex Member
Posted on: Sep 5th, 2005 at 3:14am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
The example I was thinking of was one in which a NOPD officer was drug dealing and committed murder.  Unfortunately, I do not recall if it was murder by his hand or for hire.  No difference really as the outcome was the same.  It is perhaps a long-running deep seeded corruption that has led to this most recent improper display of criminal behavior.  Although, at this time, I have no suggestion for shedding light on and abolishing such corruption, I do not believe the answer to be polygraph screening.
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 5th, 2005 at 2:35am
  Mark & Quote
Quote:

Now onto the NOPD.  Isn't this the same department that experienced some of the worst corruption in the last 20 years?  Perhaps the city leaders did not do the job they promised by weeding out departmental corruption.  The actions of these 2 criminals in uniform certainly lend to this assumption.


I tried to find out how far back the NOPD has been polygraphing and I came up on a news article about a cop from the 70's who had taken the pre-employment polygraph for NOPD.  If they have indeed been polygraphing since then,  one has to wonder WTF happened?   

I found an article relating to a crooked Louisiana cop that was recently busted for some "child predator" charges.  While I am VERY glad this scumbag has been caught, it strikes me as odd that assistant chief of the dept. is actaully bewildered as to "how" this guy made it past their "extensive pre-employment polygraph and background".   

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/sttammany/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1124866418219740.x...
Posted by: polyscam - Ex Member
Posted on: Sep 4th, 2005 at 9:38pm
  Mark & Quote
Point taken.  I only felt it necessary to mention and hi-lite the exact description due to the previous thread for which Dimas has kindly provided a link up above.  This exchange has only provided proof that words with no ulterior meaning are routinely twisted into a completely out-of-context interpretation.  I did that because I felt the same was done to me in the afore-mentioned thread.

Dimas, no I am not currently or previously a LEO.  Our "good friend" the polygraph saw to that.  However, I do realize, as you pointed out, a suspect description is essential.  Yes, I am sensitive to subjects regarding race.  I do my best to ensure that words I speak cannot be misconstrued.  Unfortunately, this is not always the case and I am sometimes unfairly branded as I did to you.

Now onto the NOPD.  Isn't this the same department that experienced some of the worst corruption in the last 20 years?  Perhaps the city leaders did not do the job they promised by weeding out departmental corruption.  The actions of these 2 criminals in uniform certainly lend to this assumption.
Posted by: Jeffery
Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2005 at 6:30am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
I think ultimately what this shows is that cops are humans, and a reflection of the communities they serve (and presumabley, the communities they come from).  Much along the same way the military is a cross-section of society.  With many good,  you get some bad (which we know the polygraph is ineffective at fully screening out).

I think the human tragedy of New Orleans is unlike anything our country has seen in over 100 years.  Absolutely amazing.  A few cops have tarnished the reputation of their department.  Much the same way as a few citizens have tarnished the image of the city.

But that's life, and events like this bring out the best in many and the worst in some.  Either way: those people need our help and the police have a very tough job to do.
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2005 at 4:30am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
lol, thanks for the laugh...


I did not mean AT ALL for this thread to be centered around race, I meant it to expose the corrupt cops and perhaps drive through the point that you cannot pay cops table scraps and expect to have a professional police force.


Unfortunately, it was somehow turned into a racial thread for reasons that only Brandon knows.

But for the record MINE IS BIGGER Grin

So, I digress, and get back to the point that it is unfortunate that police officers have lost all sense of integrity and resorted to turning into criminals themselves instead of upholding the law.  The actions of these few, will overshadow the heroism of the many in the NOPD.

Posted by: Jeffery
Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2005 at 3:44am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
dimas wrote on Sep 3rd, 2005 at 1:56am:
Brandon,

I believe you are now piling the BS pretty high.

I merely refer you back to the original post I had a problem with you about:...

Yes, Brandon, self loathing or not it ...

"Am not."

"Are too."

"Am not."  

"Are too."

"Mine's bigger."

C'mon guys.  Time to give this a rest.  Everybody has a bit of a bias.  However, one should try to overcome that and treat others as they'd want to be treated themselves -- regardless of race, gender, or shoe size.

Let's kiss and make up and get back to doing what we do best -- exposing the fraud of the century (and how it relates to Law Enforcement and other situations).

I think having a rational discussion around race is relevant; but this dialog on who's less racist (or more racist) is non-constructive.
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2005 at 1:56am
  Mark & Quote
Brandon,

I believe you are now piling the BS pretty high.

I merely refer you back to the original post I had a problem with you about:

http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=police;action=display;num=...

Yes, Brandon, self loathing or not it appears that you do have a problem with minorities in law enforcement.

I am not sure if you are or are not a LEO, but the fact of the matter is that when you are writing a report or statement you include a description of the subject you are talking about.  This includes their race and ethnicity so that there is no mistake about whom one is referring to.  As there are many reports of police officers engaging in the act of looting, I felt that indeed the ethnicity and gender of the specific officers I was referring to was needed to avoid redundancy in a message thread about the same officers.  This was placed there as a DESCRIPTION of the two and not for any other reason than that.  I cannot control what any of you infer or read into what is written, but it does bother me (doesn't surprise me) that you immediately inferred it was a racial issue.

Posted by: polyscam - Ex Member
Posted on: Sep 3rd, 2005 at 12:24am
  Mark & Quote
Dimas wrote:
Quote:
It seems very odd, I simply wrote the description of the officers, nothing was meant to be inferred or read into it, but already TWO of you that are caucasian seemed to have read into it your own prejudices and inferred that it was an attack on the officers race and ethnicity.  Had I wanted to make a point about that I would have capitalized it or made a comment regarding that issue.


Dimas,

You are correct that you were only providing a description of the officers.  However, for the purposes of this message board the only description necessary was two fully uniformed officers.  Gender and ethnicity were unnecessary to make your point.  Your anger was properly directed given that the two were in full uniform and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Quote:
I highly suggest that you READ posts as given and not make assumptions about what is being written.


This is what I asked of you in the other thread, but to no avail.  Your previous comments to me illuminated your current commentary.  That was your doing.

Quote:
Funny, but it isn't my true colors that were flown, I made no attack on the officers for their race or ethinicity, I made the attack based on the fact that they were OFFICERS IN FULL UNIFORM that were LOOTING!  It is you who made the inference out of your own prejudices/racism.  Once again Brandon, it seems to me that you have a REAL problem with minorites.


As you know little about me personally, you know even less regarding my blood-lines.  For me to have a problem with minorities would be for me to have a baseless problem with my family and myself.  I'm not into the self-loathing thing.     Wink
Posted by: rcop
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 11:56pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Looking at the police pay Web site, I was amazed at the different amounts of police pay throughout the country.  I also thought it was interesting that 31 of the 35 highest paying departments were located in California.
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 9:40pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
The FACT is that I saw it with my own two eyes, however, just for you I was able to find this article that recounts the same news story I saw.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/31/102233.shtml

There you have it!   

Posted by: retcopper
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:54pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Dimas:
What are your FACTS that they were taking items for their own good?
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 7:50pm
  Mark & Quote
Quote:


It is perhaps worth noting that NOPD apparently requires applicants to pass a pre-employment polygraph examination:

http://www.nopdonline.com/rec.htm


While I can see the point you are trying to make, I don't think you can directly blame the polygraph for this as it really cannot be an indicator of future behavior.  These officers may have lead a good (moral) past but I think that the bigger issue at hand is the pay scale that a city of nearly 500,000 offers to it police officers.  You get what you pay for and when you pay crap you tend to hire from the bottom of the success ladder, as well as open up the gate to corruption.

I refer all interested to this site:

1st year police officer pay
www.policepay.net/zmainlinks/1st%20Year%20Base%20Pay.htm

30th year police officer pay
www.policepay.net/zmainlinks/30th%20Year%20Base%20Pay.htm


As can be see New Orleans PD is very close to the bottom with it's 1st year pay of 29K and damn near the bottom with its 35k per year salary after 30 years.


Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 6:55pm
  Mark & Quote
Quote:
Dimas wrote:

Ummm...wasn't it you who assailed me in another thread for commentary with regard to the discrepancy in some departments about gender and ethnicity?  Thanks for flying your colors.  Next time be more careful before damning me with the label of racist.       Lips Sealed



It seems very odd, I simply wrote the description of the officers, nothing was meant to be inferred or read into it, but already TWO of you that are caucasian seemed to have read into it your own prejudices and inferred that it was an attack on the officers race and ethnicity.  Had I wanted to make a point about that I would have capitalized it or made a comment regarding that issue.

I highly suggest that you READ posts as given and not make assumptions about what is being written.   

Funny, but it isn't my true colors that were flown, I made no attack on the officers for their race or ethinicity, I made the attack based on the fact that they were OFFICERS IN FULL UNIFORM that were LOOTING!  It is you who made the inference out of your own prejudices/racism.  Once again Brandon, it seems to me that you have a REAL problem with minorites.



Posted by: Jeffery
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 5:52pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
cavhan7 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:26am:
Who knows what they were gonna do with the things that they took. For all we know they could have had kids at home with no food. I know that they are police officers and they should expected higher standards and what not but desperate times call for desperate measure. Judging that they were "robbing" or stealing for a bad reason may possibly be our subconcsious  telling us that we are judging them because they were black. 

How does a shopping cart full of DVDs help a hungry kid?
Posted by: polyscam - Ex Member
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 10:30am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Dimas wrote:
Quote:
...two black female police officers


Ummm...wasn't it you who assailed me in another thread for commentary with regard to the discrepancy in some departments about gender and ethnicity?  Thanks for flying your colors.  Next time be more careful before damning me with the label of racist.       Lips Sealed
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 9:05am
  Mark & Quote
retcopper wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 8:08pm:
Dimas;
 
Just like the people on this board to assume the two officers were looting for their own personal benefit. Does anyone know what was put in the cart? Keep this in mind. The command structure and centralization is nonexintent because of no ccommunications  Officers are commandeering cars from showrooms so they can perform police duites but you people on here will assume they are stealing them.  I for one will give them the benefit  of the doubt and assume the goods were 
necessary for them to perform their duties.


Nope, no assumption here.   It is a fact that they were shopping for themselves.  No other reason, than for personal gain to themselves.  While other officers may in fact be "looting" for good reasons (i.e. pharmacies come to mind in that they have to get medicines to people who need them) These particular two are just pathetic and opportunistic sorrry excuses for LE officers.  It is unfortunately, officers like these that make all the valiant efforts and non stop 24 hours shifts that all the good cops are doing worthless.

Ultimately, it is you who is ends up looking bad, as YOU ASSumed incorrectly in this matter and also ASSumed that you could simply "paint brush" the people who post on this board and fit them into one category.  We are all very different and we DO NOT all agree with what the others believe.  Some may assume, but most of us who usually post frequently on this site are fact driven.


Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:46am
  Mark & Quote
cavhan7,

Pre-employment polygraph screening is supposed to result in a more honest, less corruption-prone workforce, though there is no proof that such is the case. On the other hand, polygraph screening predictably screens out many of the most honest and conscientious law enforcement applicants, who are wrongly branded as liars.

While I did not see the video Dimas mentioned, and don't know what items the officers in question were taking, another news report suggests that at least some NOPD officers were looting to help themselves, not the public:

Quote:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=...

'Times-Picayune' Announces New Home -- in Houma -- and Reports Looting by Cops and Firemen

By E&P Staff

Published: August 30, 2005 6:25 PM ET

NEW YORK The battered Times-Picayune of New Orleans, which evacuated its downtown office this afternoon, posted a simple note to it staffers on its Web site late this afternoon: "We are working at the Houma Courier for a few days. If you have news, call 985-850-1182. We plan to set up a longer term newsroom in Baton Rouge. Call the Advocate to find out where we are."

Meanwhile, two staffers published a story on one of the Web site's blogs, reporting on the looting in the city -- joined in by cops and firemen who had been called to the scene.

Other reports, and TV footage, have shown brazen looting at many sites around the city. One compared the current climate in the increasingly desperate city to "Sodom and Gomorrah."

One looter shot a local police officer, but Tuesday night word came that the officer was expected to survive.

At the Times-Picayune Web site, Mike Perlstein and Brian Thevenot wrote that at a Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, mass looting broke out after a giveaway of supplies was announced at that location. While some did indeed carry away food and essentials, others "cleared out jewelry racks and carted out computers, TVs, and appliances on handtrucks. Some officers joined in taking whatever they could, including one New Orleans cop who loaded a shopping cart with a compact computer and a 27-inch flat screen television.

"Throughout the store and parking lot, looters pushed carts and loaded trucks and vans alongside officers. One man said police directed him to Wal-Mart from Robert's Grocery, where a similar scene was taking place. A crowd in the electronics section said one officer broke the glass DVD case so people wouldn't cut themselves.

"The police got all the best stuff. They're crookeder than us," one man said. Most officers, though, simply stood by powerless against the tide of law breakers.

One veteran officer said, "It's like this everywhere in the city. This tiny number of cops can't do anything about this. It's wide open."

Some groups, the reporters wrote, "organized themselves into assembly lines to more efficiently cart off goods. Inside the store, one woman was stocking up on make-up. She said she took comfort in watching police load up their own carts. 'It must be legal,' she said. 'The police are here taking stuff, too.'"
Posted by: cavhan7
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:26am
  Mark & Quote
Quote:
Dimas,

While I agree that the actions of these two police officers is deplorable, I don't see how their race and sex are of relevance.

It is perhaps worth noting that NOPD apparently requires applicants to pass a pre-employment polygraph examination:

http://www.nopdonline.com/rec.htm


To tell you the truth i have to disagree with you on this one. I dont think their requirements for pre employment polygraph has any relavance. It is just as much relavent as their sex or race.  Who knows what they were gonna do with the things that they took. For all we know they could have had kids at home with no food. I know that they are police officers and they should expected higher standards and what not but desperate times call for desperate measure. Judging that they were "robbing" or stealing for a bad reason may possibly be our subconcsious  telling us that we are judging them because they were black. 
Posted by: Sergeant1107
Posted on: Sep 2nd, 2005 at 8:14am
  Mark & Quote
retcopper wrote on Sep 1st, 2005 at 8:08pm:
Dimas;
 
Just like the people on this board to assume the two officers were looting for their own personal benefit…

Amazing.

At the time you posted that you had been registered on this board for a whole day.  And yet you are apparently familiar enough with everyone on this board to make such comments.

It seems as though you have little to contribute to any discussion on the polygraph, but have already made up your mind that anyone who is against the polygraph is wrong.  With nothing to contribute you seem to be content to limit yourself to personal attacks upon anyone who posts an antipolygraph sentiment here.

Since you apparently didn’t know what YHBT meant, let me supply a useful definition for you:
A troller is looking for a response...ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone...ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless - practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and the troller must move on to more promising waters.

Now if someone calls you a troll you will know why.
Posted by: retcopper
Posted on: Sep 1st, 2005 at 8:08pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Dimas;
 
Just like the people on this board to assume the two officers were looting for their own personal benefit. Does anyone know what was put in the cart? Keep this in mind. The command structure and centralization is nonexintent because of no ccommunications  Officers are commandeering cars from showrooms so they can perform police duites but you people on here will assume they are stealing them.  I for one will give them the benefit  of the doubt and assume the goods were necessary for them to perform their duties.
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 1st, 2005 at 1:28pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George,

The description as far as the two officers' sex and ethnicity was only that, a description of the officers, nothing else was meant to be read into it or implied.  



Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Sep 1st, 2005 at 11:37am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Dimas,

While I agree that the actions of these two police officers is deplorable, I don't see how their race and sex are of relevance.

It is perhaps worth noting that NOPD apparently requires applicants to pass a pre-employment polygraph examination:

http://www.nopdonline.com/rec.htm
Posted by: dimas
Posted on: Sep 1st, 2005 at 11:21am
  Mark & Quote
So there I was watching the news and among all the stories relating to the aftermath of Katrina I begin to get more and more disgusted with all the looting that seems to ge going on.  Not looting for essentials like food or water, this I and I believe everyone can understand, but the looting of merchandise, shoes, jewelry, TV's (there isn't even any power) and other non-essential items.

It shocks me how quickly society seems to break down in circumstances such as these.   But among all that it totally pissed me off to see that a news reporter was filming from inside of a Wal-mart showing first hand what the looters were doing and he follows it with the question "and where are all the police?"  and answers "well they are in aisle 6" or something like that.  Next thing you know he and the camera crew are following around two black female police officers IN FULL UNIFORM, filling up a shopping cart with things for themselves! 

Thankfully this is on video and I hope to hell that there will be reprecussions for these two idiots!   Way to go NOPD, you get what you pay for!

 
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