You stated that you used drugs and had a dui in the past...  Did you do these while you had your Secret Clearance in the Military? If you did your done. You didnt even take a secret clearance very serious why would you take any other very serious.

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retcopper wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2005 at 9:27pm:

Is that what society wants?  Hard-assed thick-skinned cops with no sensitivity or feeling?

news flash: some people grow up in sheltered envionments.  not everybody grows up street-smart.  A polygraph can certainly be a skin-thickening, cynic-making hardening experience.  I guarantee whatever soft spot this person felt for cops (the term cops used broadly to include the entire system that relies on polygraphs) is either gone or smaller.

Sergeant:

I do beleive that most people in here have already made up their minds regarding the polygraph. Contrary to what you may think I am mindful of the feelings  of the people who I test and I treat them with respect.  When I posted  Johnn about his test my point was that he needs to develop a thicker skin.

retcopper wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2005 at 4:37pm:

I was in no way implying that this board is just for me.  What gave you that impression?  Was it when I wrote that you shouldn’t denigrate people you don’t know just because they are upset?  Or was it when I posted the definition of a troll so you would know that posting personal attacks and inflammatory opinions which contribute nothing to the ongoing discussion but are merely designed to provoke a reaction is such a common problem on message boards that it has its own name?

I was really not disagreeing with you, because you didn’t offer your opinion about the polygraph except in the vaguest of ways, by implying that anyone who doesn't know a polygraph is good and useful must not be a good cop.

Perhaps you could do some research so that next time someone posts an antipolygraph opinion you can post one refuting it with facts.  Or you could add some personal experiences you had in your law enforcement career to back up your opinion on the polygraph.  On this board there are many people who think the polygraph is good and useful, and they post intelligent opinions and supply facts to back up their arguments.  Those people are welcome.  

There are also many people who believe the polygraph is useful but can offer nothing to this discussion except to make fun of people who are upset about the way they were treated in a polygraph exam and accuse people who point out their troll-like behavior of not being police officers.

If you would like to join the discussion then do so.  If you would prefer to stand at the back of the room and make sarcastic comments without adding anything useful of your own, perhaps you’d be happier somewhere else.

retcopper

What bable!!! Have I said anything about exprison preachers becoming LEOs?? You should run for some U. S. Congressional Office. You can scurt issues with with the best of them in D.C. (Even Clinton). You seem to have difficulty addressing "bad cop" issues. Do you suggest shooting the "looter cops" too? Oh. I forgot. You can't answer that type question.

Sergeant:
I see SARGE.  This board is just for you because you are the polygraph and morality police.  You disagree with people and then make personal attacks against them. I'm glad you were not a REAL Sgt in my P.D. By the way if you are really a police officer how do your fellow officers treat you?

Twoblock:

Thats all we need now.  Ex prison preachers as LE officers. Maybe we can send them to NO to straighten out the looters runnning around with Ar 15s.

Xman:

You sound like you have your act together now.  Good luck.

retcopper

Re: Good decissions.

How about the rogue cops that are looting in N.O.? Do you think they were always consumed with larceny or just a spur of the moment "bad decision"? I submit that there many LEOs that made bad decisions as youngsters who turned out to be good LEOs. Did the rogue idiots in N.O. make bad decisions as youngsters or just all of a sudden turn bad. I rest my case.

I totally agree with you.  I take full responsibility for my previous actions and I am prepared to be denied opportunities.  But what makes America great, is that people are afforded another chance at life.  For example, I wasn't a very good student in high school.  After military service, the GI Bill empowered to go to community college, and undergraduate and graduate degrees.  Unlike school systems in Europe or elsewhere, we are afforded a second chance at a college education.   

Frankly, I haven't always wanted to join the CIA.  Perhaps if that was my goal, I wouldn't have chosen to smoke marijuana or experiment with hard drugs.   Although I would give anything to change my past behavior, it has defined who I am today -  I believe for the better.  Since I've learned many things the hard way, I am very critical of irresponsible behavior of others.  Although I'm obviously a bit of risk-taker, my experiences have made more pragmatic and cautious.   

I'm also quite cynical of those who come across as "good."  Although I am responsible for my actions, there is also strong element of luck.  It would be hard to believe that none of the adults posting messages on the board have been behind the wheel of car after a few drinks - especially from California.  Perhaps the "good" people should examine there own behavior before placing judgements.  I made rational choices, no matter how misplaced or augmented my alcohol, to get behind the wheel of my car.  I had no other choice but to drastically change my lifestyle.  If it means being deemed a security risk, then I am prepared for it.  .            

Twoblock;

It's about making good decisions in your life.  You have to stop and think that a bad decision probably will jump  up and bite you in the ass sometime in the future. Those who made the good decisions get the jobs. Those who didn't have to suffer the consequences of their own making. Before I became a cop I avoided drugs because I knew that eventually I might be denied a job that I wanted.  Those who indulged didn't get the jobs. It is called taking personal responsibility.

The Shadow

My mistake. Prime example of posting without thinking. However, to me, it's academic. They both worked for our government, who employ polygraphs, in a TS capacity and were supposed to be loyal and upright citizens.

My point is: How many are working in LE that has the same or worse record as xman. A lot of criminals have turned over the new leaf and became upstanding citizens. I have read that many prison preachers were once incarcerated as felons themselves and are now visiting prisons trying to turn lives around.

xman just might make one hell of an agent. Then again he could be a rogue. To condem his ambititions now for stupid actions of the past, I think is wrong. He is capable of turning his life to crime fighting. Lord knows we need some hard knocking crime fighters.

Twoblock,

Aimes was CIA not FBI

retcopper

Sure. Like FBI SA's Aimes and Hansen.

You should definitely not apply.  We want future CIA reps to have a background that is indicative of good sound moral values and capable of mkaing intelligent decisons.

Xman11,


   a comment turned into a diatribe?  not everyone out here agrees with you in your educational goals or endeavors.   just remember that your past can and will come to haunt you.  especially when it comes to personal situations.  2 DUIS?  how can you be trusted with high security, when your personal integrity is at issue?   Integrity is being good when no one is watching.

I appreciate all of your feedback.  I just received the packet in the mail and I'm going to go through with it.  No matter how unlikely my success, atleast I could never say I didn't give it a shot.  I'm not one to have a defeatist attitude, but I'm sure I'll put my education to good use

In response to LessMoore, I received my MA degree from the University of Kent's Brussels School of International Studies.   Its a British university that has an International Studies graduate program in Brussels.  The university is fully-accredited by the Department of Education and I qualified for a Stafford loan.  The school is very challenging and students and faculty were from all over the world.  As a student, you are eligible to work in Belgium.  If you speak french and/or dutch, then their many opportunities, but english is widely spoken as well.  I had an opportunity to work at the European Parliament, being the only American in my office, its was really interesting.   

Good luck on your B.S. and congratulations on nearing its completion.   

As for "Gelb Disliker," you seem to have some serious anger issues.  I just hope your short diatribe made you feel better about yourself.

xman,

  you seem to think that 2.5 years ago was a very long time.   me thinks that you will have a very difficult time finding a job at a local McDonalds.   You seem to think that you can live a life of no consequences and then all of a sudden find yourself working in high security situations with the government?  the drugs and partying really fried your brain into a delusional state of coma.   try back again in another life.

one more thing:
cia requires top secret clearance.  your former clearance might still be valid, but is inconsequencial to CIA hiring.
and even if you have a top-secret, CIA would only honor a NSA level clearance.  anything else, CIA would make make a note then proceed with its own investigation.

xman-
- CIA requires US residence for last 7 consecutive years.  looks like your tenure in Europe might be a problem.
- CIA not only looks for major offenses, but also looks at "a series of minor incidences that point to a behavioral pattern."  for example: are you someone who frequently runs tolls without paying for them?  do you frequently shoplift insignificant items like candy or gum?  (these would lead to basic integrity questions).  therefore, I would say that the DUI's would pose a problem.
- on a side note: drugs = most significant factor in failing clearance.  criminal conduct = second most significant factor.  finances = 3rd.
- drug policy is stated as "drug free for one year."  however, if you used frequently in the past...could pose a problem as this points to behavioral pattern.  good job on cleaning up, but would a nat'l security apparatus really take the risk of employing a former drug user (with DUI records) when there are others out there?  hmmmm.  unless, of course, you speak farsi, arabic, korean or chinese.  just being honest here.
- you could very well get a COE - but I would suspect your security clearance could take 2 years.

LessMoore-
My language is literal...only my name is alegorical.  and with that I've already said too much.

hope to see some of you on the other side.

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Be careful not to look to the security screening process as some sort of validation and recognition of your behavioral changes.  Whatever you decide good luck, and congratulations on your making positive changes to your life.

The best advice though is to read about other peoples experiences and decide if you want to take the chance and what the risks are both in the long and short term.

Sorry for the unclear posting.  I was distracted and in a bit of a hurry.   

I met to convey the phrase, "slap on the wrist."   

As for the car accident, I was actually struck by an 18-wheeler as it was making a lane change.  The truck driver pulled over on the side of the highway and then proceeded to leave the scene of the accident thereafter.  When CHP arrived on the scene, I was arrested for driving under the influence.  Luckily nobody was hurt.    

As I mentioned previously, I've completely turned around since this incident.  I moved to Europe for about 18 months to study and now reside in Washington D.C.   

I'm not laying the blame on others for my previous indiscretions, because I was leading the pack more often than not.  Rather, the culture of heavy drinking indicative of working in the bar industry only encouraged my risky behavior.      

I've kept this incident very discreet from recent friends and colleagues and it is very strange for me to reveal this to total strangers.  Since some of you appear to have had experience in this proces, I simply need some feedback on my chances of successfully completing the process.   

In addition to applying for the CIA (CMO), I submitted an application to the DIA's entry level Intelligence Officer program.  Should I just withdraw my applications and wait several years to reapply?  I wouldn't want to be "flagged" for a previous DQ.  I feel as though I should just go through with it and take my chances.  I've "eliminated" my friends and I have a few drinks a week if not at all.      

As an aside, I am also wondering if my secret clearance is still valid?  It was granted in 1997 and I heard it was valid for 10 years.   

Thanks   

Quote:

That could really hurt his chances, unless he is interviewing for a "special" job there.