10-4

nunyun wrote on Aug 13^th, 2004 at 2:54am:


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I have changed my log-on to 40smith, and I am the original poster.
I delt with the i/r test by just winging it.  I was confused a bit, so I didn't attempt to alter any patterns. ie breathing.

The other one, countermeasures were used.  It was so easy picking out the controls.  George and Gino have really put together a wealth of knowledge here in the LBTLD.  If you really read it, and let it sink in, you will do just fine.  I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I aint dumb either.. haha.
If you get the chance for a probable lie/direct lie exam, using countermeasures should be a breeze unless you make it really obvious.  You also might want to look at the chair you are placed in to make sure there aren't any cables coming out of the back of it.  Don't want a butt pad in there while you are trying to squeeze away!!!

If I offended anyone with my profanity from the previous post, I apologize.

all I was asking was a simple question to the original poster but once again as I have been reading a propolygrapher must weigh in with some thought. Weather I use the original posters advice or not is my problem, I was just asking what had happened to him....

As a side note I have read many post on here and I find it funny that if Polygraphers have nothing to fear and this sites info is all bullshit why waste your time. Why not let this info get diseminated and if these people get caught or fail the poly due to bad info then ...Oh well and good for the polygraphers!  However seeing that they can't stay away from this site and attack anyone who diseminates info of how the machine can be beat or it has been beat from personal expierience just fuels more readers that there must be someting to it or these people would not get so upset and feel the need to hangout here.

Me, I am a cop changing agencies and I am well aware of the unreliability of poly's and have seen many good cops who when they originally tried to get hired had failed several poly's before they past one.  They did not lie, their charracter is good they just had some failures.

I came to this site because I do not want to be a victim of a false positive and i will be using CM's but that is my descision,  My luck is that my Polygrapher at my department has spoken to me in depth about polys and although he did not want to betray his profession he is the one that turned me on to this site and said I may want to read it.  I have already taken a poly when I got hired at this agencies and I laughed when I read the book as it was right on as far as how my first poly went (which I past).  Although I past I still do not trust the poly and as I stated I am here to gain more knowledge.

With that being said please let the original poster answer my question without some Polygrapher getting a hard on. Compared to to other sites such as the Polygraph Place and 911 forums I think the Moderators on this board are pretty forgiving in the debate that goes on here.

enough said I will go back into the shadows and read.....Thanks to those who are responsible for this board it has been very helpful.  Unfortunatley some criminals will use this info but that is just the way it is we are in the information age and if it was not here they would get it somewhere else.......

I am not going to proofread this so I apologize to those with an english degree, I am just a old beat cop.

All are reminded of, and politely requested to comply with, AntiPolygraph.org's posting policy:

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Sorry hed-fed, crock o terds.
Little bit more PC for you.

head-fed,

Actually 40 smith only referred to you as a joke, he did not use profanity direct towards you as a person.  He also used the good old "crock of shit" expletive as a description of his opinion on Polygraphy.  His post was actually sticking to the subject.

People's posts get sent away to the discarded posts for excessive languange, ad-hominem attacks and mainly for being WAY off of topic.   (I should know as on occasion I have had my posts moved due to this)

I can tell you more than likely are one of the unhappy posters who has on occasion been sent off.

head-fed,

Since you are into pointing out facts, why not direct us to any published studies indicating that polygraphers have any ability to detect countermeasures?

40smith wrote on Aug 12^th, 2004 at 11:51pm:


What's the new posting policy George?  You only ban posters and delete posts that are pro-polygraph?  This rude personal attack post containing foul language is OK with you as long as it is anti-poly-pro-George.....  Just so people will know, responses to posts like this one get deleted but the ones kissing George's ass stay on.  OH WELL - so much for your claim of a free discussion.  That's, how do you say it 40Smith?   a crock o' shit.....  And by the way, 40, I'm not mad, I'm just pointing out the facts.

Hed-fed, you are a joke!
A polygrapher I believe.
The advice on this site, if used properly is very effective.  I am one to talk, because I used it and it worked just fine.
George is very knowledgeable in this study and I would never dispute it.
I am sorry if you are mad because your profession is a crock o' shit!!
George, keep up the good work.

head-fed wrote on Aug 12^th, 2004 at 11:15pm:


So what? The countermeasure information provided in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is not based on my personal experience, nor that of my co-author, Gino Scalabrini. Rather, it is based on an extensive review of the polygraph literature. We've included ample citations that readers may check for themselves.

I invite you to point out anything in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector that believe to be false or otherwise misleading.

REALITY CHECK!  Those of you who come to this site for advice, (or advise in the case of ole Sluggo), be aware of the fact that both George and Sluggo have failed both of their polygraph tests and have never used any of the "countermeasures" they praise.

Great post, and I am glad you did well.  Can you go more into depth how you dealt with the I/R ques in regards to CM's that you used, or did you just wing it without......Thanks for your time.....

It was interesting how the first operator put you thru an interrigation even though you had showed to pass.

If the poly's so accurate, what would be the sense of trying to get you to admit to something, if the poly said you weren't lying? ????

Obviously, the operator understands the tool doesn't work, or he wouldn't have to be a "professional" interragator after you already passed.

That reinforces the premise that the poly's a tool to try to conjole admissions, since it can't really tell if one is lying or not. ?)

Well-
Firstly... Sorry for the late  post.
2 weeks ago I took a poly for a corrections position and did well.
The polygrapher was nice (at first) we had things in common and we talked like old friends.  Had a pre-test interview, looking for damaging admissions.
Ran me through the 1st chart.  It was a rel/irr test.  Conducted a stim test.  I truly blew smoke up his ass, meaning I was terribly patronizing in how I couldn't believe how accurate this machine was!  WOW !, I said that was amazing!!! ha-ha (secretly saying, "I am on to you sucka."
Ran through second chart.  Next was a 3rd chart.
Afterward I was placed in an extremely hot room to stew.
He came back, and I noticed his body language was obviously being altered.  I thought uh oh post test.
He accused me of being completely  deceptive.
I started to get annoyed, and firmly stated that I told the truth.  This was an experience that life has not prepared me for.  I have never had my character come into question like this.  Being interrogated is a miserable experience.  He insisted I was being deceptive, but did not tell me where .  I didn't have any control q's to say I had a problem with, so I denied.
He left and came back 30 mins. later.  Told me I passed.
I have to say, this was a situation I wish I never had to endure.  The way he insisted upon my guiltiness was incredible.  He is a trained interrogator.  He also mentioned that we aren't looking for boy scouts, and realizes everyone has done bad things.  I was saying to myself, dude you are full of shit.
Terrible experience, but passed.

The following week I took another poly for a different agency, still corrections..
This turned out to be a probable lie control test.
The polygrapher explained that some candidates have been going on the internet looking at how to beat this machine.  I said, thats terrible!
The polygrapher went over the relevant questions (ie. drugs, serious crime, theft, abuse and sexual crimes.)
Next he said, these q's I am going to ask you are very important.  They all should be no.
"Have you ever lied to a loved one?"
Um, yes I did, sir..
He seeked to contain this admission, "what and who did you lie to"?
I told him and we moved on.
"Have you ever lied to a supervisor?"
(at this point I am cracking up inside, thinking this guy is textbook)!
Umm, yes sir I have.
Told him what I lied about.
"Did you ever do something that made your parents embarrased"?
umm, yes sir I have.
"Is your name ____?"
Yes it is.
"Are you in the State of California?"
Yes.
Next I was attached to the machine.   
No stim test.
Ready....
Yes sir.

Are you in the State of Cali?
yes
Have you violated this agencies' stance on illegal drugs?
no
Besides what we spoke of, have you ever lied to a supervisor?
Pucker...no
Besides what we spoke of, have you ever lied to a loved one?
pucker...no
rape question 
no
abuse question
no
"Is your name ____?"
yes
Did you ever do anything to make your parent embarrased?
pucker...no
relevant
relevant
relevant
finished.
Did one more chart like this, different relevants and some different controls.  same irrelevants.
passed exam.
I also maintained a consistant breathing pattern through out the exam.  Pucker was amazing!!
So, thanks George and Gino!!!
I understane the Lie behind the detector!!!!!