Railroaded,

It would seem likely that your experience has made you cynical regarding police, and justifiably so.  There are officers who break the rules and act inappropriately.  There are also procedures in place to deal with them.

If you feel that you have been treated unprofessionally or illegally by any police officers then you can file a complaint.  If you feel the police department is not handling your complaint in the proper fashion you can go to city hall.  Since you already seem to have a lawyer he could probably give you more advice on this.

In most departments the bad officers do not outnumber the good.  Honest, professional police officers have even more incentive than you do to get control of and/or eliminate the bad police officers in their ranks.

Please allow to qualify my bitter-sounding comments.  I know there are honest, good-hearted people working in law enforcement...especially patrol officers.

I have always tried to teach my kids that cops are the good guys.

Until recently, I always had nothing but a good impression of law enforcement.  I had been in trouble quite a lot in my youth and had negative dealings with the police, but that was my fault and I held nothing against any of the officers who were doing their jobs.

But these State's Attorney investigators are a whole other matter.  I have caught them in numerous lies from day one.  For instance, they asked if I have porn on my computer and I replied "Yes".  The next day he called my attorney and quoted me as saying "I have a big problem with porn".  

They asked my kids to the CAC for their interviews and told them "We just want to protect you from who ever is hurting you.  Tell us about your father."   

To my wife while executing the search warrant:  "It doesn't bother you that your husband has porn on his computer?"   

During the execution of the search warrant, one of the investigators took a law code book that I had in my library, HIGHLIGHTED and UNDERLINED certain codes and sentences and left it open at my desk in front of my chair.   

I have never been made to feel so degraded in my life.

railroaded wrote on Jul 28^th, 2005 at 9:09pm:

It’s unfortunate that your experiences seem to have led you to the belief that the truth is in short supply in law enforcement.  My experiences indicate that it is not.

There are flawed individuals in every profession.  By and large, in my experience, police officers are honest people with strong moral beliefs who have a genuine desire to help.  None of them are perfect, but most of them strive to do their best.

Yes, by all means wait until AFTER you are a cop before you start lying.  After all, the Supreme Court has ruled that you can lie during interrogations.

And Polygraphers often lie to catch the examinee in a lie.  It seems to me that the TRUTH is in short supply in LE.

piglikedonut wrote on Jul 27^th, 2005 at 2:09am:

I agree.  If you are planning to lie you should not be trying to get a job in law enforcement.  I believe the information in TLBTLD should be used by truthful people who are trying to protect themselves from a false positive.  It is unfortunate that there is no way to release that information to just those people without making it available to everyone else at the same time.

As a law enforcement officer your credibility means a lot.  If your peers catch you in a lie even once you are going to never live it down.  If rumors of your dishonesty make it to the state’s attorney’s office you will likely not be called to testify.  Once that happens you can rest assured that defense lawyers will hear about it and start calling you constantly, and if that happens you will have a hard time maintaining this career.

MOST departments in metro Atlanta view everyones' past drug usage on a CASE by CASE basis. 

Being a LEO myself I suggest to you TO TELL THE TRUTH!!! If you lie now, you will lie later!!!

PDD-Fed, 
            Any cop, any good street cop that is, would never have posted a response and added that they are the law. if you were really in law enforcement, I doubt very much you would have taken the bait, but you did. You responded with hostility and anger. I could see it in your sentences. 

  Most real cops and polygraphists don't post messages on these boards.....all they do is sit back and read. And wait.....

  Mike_C.

Quote:


Is that a geographical place?  If it is.........the answer is no.   I reside in California.   

Kona

KONA are you from Nampa, ID ?

DIMAS,

I must congratulate you, I think you actually got BJ to think before he speaks. Your a more patient man than I am I gave up on him after my third post. LOL
But I must admit I still have faith in BJ that he will make a triumphant comeback. LMFAO

Kona wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 1:50pm:
I apologize kona if I offended you. If you are a police officer, then God bless you and keep up the good work. I'm trying to get on right now myself. All police officers are brothers, even if they have a difference of opinion. Cops fight the good fight, protecting and serving human beings, it's a magnificent endeavor. I hope I get on soon and join the rest of the brave men who put their lives on the line every day to keep this country a safe place to live.

COPS= COURAGEOUS ONES PROTECTING and SERVING.

stud wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 10:17am:


Stud, I am not quite sure if you are really complimenting me or being sarcastic.   ???   It is quite early so my brain isn't at 100% yet.  Either way, welcome to the discussion board.

As far as winning, I am not really out to "win" this per se, as much as I am really out to make people learn to use their minds.  Ignorance is one of the most dangerous shortcomings out there.  

As for Kona, while he and I have VERY different opinions on subjects it appears that we have both agreed to disagree on the subject without resorting to unnessesary personal attacks.  I welcome argument from a person like Kona any day, as I feel it is worth it when they at least take the time to procees the information and acknowledge it.  Unfortunately no matter how sure I am about the said officers in my arguments having been good officers he will not accept their mistake.  Fortunately it is not his opinion that matters but that of the people who worked with these officers.  

As for BJ, well there will always be people like him in life and all one can do is try to help them learn or ignore them, the latter will however, always continue to contribute to their ignorance.  For the record, BJ, while a person's spelling is a good indicator of their level of intelligence, people should be open enough to know that some VERY intelligent people are in fact bad spellers and even some very good spellers occasionally misspell a word or two.  While BJ has mastered the ability to use a spell checker and dictionary, lets hope he one day masters the ability to use common sense.

Have a safe and happy weekend.

stud wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 10:17am:


Gee Stud, I don't remember saying anything of the sort.  What I do remember saying was I wouldn't want someone on the force that injected an illegal drug, or used prescription drugs like oral steroids, percodan, vicodan and the like without being under proper medical care.  Bottom line here is......it's not up to me to decide what prior drug usage is ok, and what isn't.  Each individual police dept sets their own criteria......end of story. 

stud wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 10:17am:


Ok, fair enough.  Let's say for example (to test your theory), a police applicant told you that 15 years ago he used to shoot up heroin to get high.  Then, 10 years ago he got religion, kicked his dope habit, and now counsels kids about the evils of drugs.  He's a changed man now, hallelujah!!  That was a long time ago; he's not that man anymore, because he doesn't display the  bad judgement that he once did.  How would you feel about this guy joining your police department? 

stud wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 10:17am:


If you mean judgemental.....as in the capacity to form an opinion by distinguishing and evaluating.....yes I am.  Unforgiving?  Maybe to criminals and druggies, but not to a person that made an honest mistake.

Most people like myself are hypocrites?  Ouch, that hurt.  Please take it easy on me Stud.  By "most people" I assume you mean other judgemental and unforgiving mean people like me, right?   

stud wrote on Jun 18^th, 2004 at 10:17am:


I'm sure that there are many good officers like these.  The problem is how you define "bad judgement," and where you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable past behavior.  Is it acceptable to have shot heroin when you were an 18 year old college student, or is a drunk driving ticket crossing the line? I have my own opinions regarding what is acceptable or not, and I post my opinions here on these message boards.  You can take them, or leave them......I really don't care.  Ultimately, the only thing that does matter is the police department's hiring policy.

Kona

Dimas, keep up the good work. You are BY FAR the more logical, rational, knowledgable, intellectual, and realistic one. Your opinions and advice are much more coherent and informative than those other 2 individuals. Your right Dimas, the one that is winning the discussion never resorts to personal insults as the other 2 are. It's known in philosophy as an ADD-Homonym, and the people using ADD-HOMONYMS are the ones LOSING the arguement.

P.S. Kona, if it was up to you, anyone who ever smoked pot, got excessively drunk, or took a girlfriends motrin for pain would not get into LE. A person's judgement may change for the better over a period of time. Just because a person did something unhealthy 10 years ago, and used bad judgement while doing it, does not mean they still have poor judgement. You make no sense, and are totally judgemental and unforgiving. Most people like yourself are incredible HIPOCRITES, doing the very thing you tell other not to.

There are fantastic police officers out there who used poor judgement when they were younger(before they were cops) but they learned from there mistakes and bad judgement and became great people. They now turn people away from the very behavior, that was at one time, extremely detrimental to them. There own bad experiences have saved others from doing the very same awful thing.

I hope you never do anyhting wrong KONA, you may not be able to live with yourself.

BlackJhack wrote on Jun 17^th, 2004 at 6:16pm:



No, not angry at all, but I am disappointed.  I find it disheartening that a future LE candidate (YOU) would show such lack of civility and reason.  It appears to me that almost all your posts are written with the intent to insult and degrade the previous poster.  infact I am a quite happy person and even happier because it appears I finally got you to be quiet.  But of course you will come back and post something not making any sense,  make unfounded and unnecessary personal attacks and once again display to all what an inappropriate demeanor you have by using expletives in place of well thought out argument backed by facts.

As for your lies, well you lied again. 

Quote:


Actually, yes, I did address the topics relating to your last post and here is one topic I forgot to address in one of you prior posts as well in which you wrote:

Quote:


I am not sure if it is ignorance or jealously that appears to motivate your ramblings, but I have a particular site I would like you to see regarding LE officers that actually go through both academies as their training requirments.  I guess you now have heard and seen it all.  Enjoy and hopefully learn to think before you post.

http://ci.alamogordo.nm.us/DPS/NewPage/TRAINING%20AND%20RECRUITING.htm

Even though it is only Thursday come the weekend I will make sure to enjoy it.  Hopefully you will use your time constructively and use it to learn so that you can actually contribute a decent, thought out argument.   

Dimas,
I think you just showed everybody on the site what an angry person you are. You didn't address any of the topics at hand. I have so much that I could say about your last post, but I will refrain. Just relax, breathe and enjoy the weekend!

BJ, you can't really be that stupid can you?  Once again THINK before you post, because you continue to make yourself look really bad.

1.  You state that one has to go through the fire academy to be a paramendic?  NO, you go through EMT school to become a paramedic, the fire academy teaches you how to fight fires, extricate and the other tasks that firefighters do and maybe teaches them at the EMT-B level.  For your information once again to become a paramedic you go to EMT SCHOOL, you get your First Responder or EMT-B(most firefighters are either one of these), then EMT-I and then finally your Paramedic certification.  FYI, I attended TEXAS TECH a medical school to get my paramedic certificate, not a firefighter academy.  So much for your ignorant statement that ALL paramedics are firefighters first.

Paramedics are now LVN's and RN's?  this is has to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard(your steroid side-effect post is actually #1).  An LVN and especially an RN are more specialized vocations than a Paramedic.  That is why LVN's and RN's are PAID more than paramedics.  THINK before you POST.  LVN's and RN's may have started their careers as Paramedics and then continued to study to become a nurse, but a nurse does not study to become a Paramedic as they are already qualified to do everything a Paramedic can and MORE.

2.  Since you don't have a degree and are not a Law Enforcement officer, I find it amusing that you attempt to lecture me about school as I did infact graduate from college with honors.  No, not a mail order college, but a state institution.  READ my posts again, words make sentences which then make paragraphs and if you manage to comprehend it all then you might realize what an fool you are making yourself out to be. 

3. Either you really are dumb or you are distorting information in a sad attempt to make yourself look like you are making a point.  I'm sorry but anyone naive enough to post that steroids are mind controlling drugs definitely needs to go back to school to learn comprehension, deduction and logic.  

Keep to the facts when trying to make a point.  You consistently call me a liar, yet I have not written a single lie.  The only way you are even making any points in this discussion is by altering the interpretation of what is written to fit what you are trying to say, this is why I believe you need help in the comprehension department.  If you ever do become a cop, remember that you do not have the option to interpret an event as you want to, but have to stick to the facts at hand.  


Sorry BJ, but it seems to me that the one that needs to be "schooled" is actually you.  It amazes me how many times you have posted just to insult or rip people down.  It seems to me that you have real psychological issues to include anti-social behavior.  It does not amaze me that you have not been able to work in LE.

Mayberry, ouch, yeah you really got me with that one.  Grow up BJ.

Roids, 
You like to talk about my lack of reading comprehension skills, again I have 3 words for you... there, their, and they're.

Dimas, I am only going to give you this free lesson in "schooling" once, so pay close attention. 

First, you have just proven yourself to be a liar, because you said that you are a paramedic, but now you are saying that you are an EMT(which is it?). To become a paramedic, you must go through the fire academy. I never said that all firefighters were  paramedics, it's actually the other way around. Most paramedics have a medical background which in many cases they have obtained their LVN or RN license. If you take a city such as Los Angeles all paramedics are firefighters first. I know that since you live in Mayberry (Population 12) they probably do things different there. 
Next you state that you obtain a BS degree when you major in PE. That does not make it a science major. If you had really attended college you would understand that PE is not considered a science related field and even if you receive a BS in it (which isn't always the case) that doesn't make you a doctor or a scientist. Even if you do major in a science related field you can still receive a BA, depending on the classes you choose and if you decide to select a minor, or, if you do not wish to select a specialty in that major (i.e. biology is a BA, microbiology is a BS). This way you control the degree you will receive (you can find this information out from any college counselor). So when you say that ALL P.E. majors result in a BS, you are wrong. 
Lastly, when you say "pre-law". Anything you major in can be "pre-law". What really counts is your grades and what you score on the L-SAT. Most law students don't even major in criminal justice or criminology. They major in subjects like history and poly-sci.
Dimas, you have only established yourself as a liar and mis-informed wind-bag. How are we supposed to believe anything you say when you can't even tell the truth about who you are? Do you hear that flushing sound? That is you credibility going down the toilet.

dimas wrote on Jun 16^th, 2004 at 4:59am:


Fair enough.  You have your way of looking at this, and I have mine.   

Kona

Quote:


Why do you care so much about my opinion of illegal steroid use?  My opinion doesn't matter.  The police department's hiring board sets the criteria for what is or isn't acceptable past drug usage, not me.  Any police department that I am familiar with has listed illegal steroid use (injectable) as a disqualifying event.  Whether or not orally taken steroids is a disqualifying event.....I don't know.  But if it were, I wouldn't have a problem with that.   

My opinion, if you must know, is that anybody that has taken steroids (injectable or oral) without a doctor's prescription is an idiot that lacks the basic judgement required to be a police officer.  That's my opinion, if you don't like it, I don't care. 

Quote:


Use a little common sense here, ok?  If an applicant told me that he had used and abused Percodan or Vicodin on a regular basis in the past, I wouldn't have a problem disqualifying them.  If an applicant borrowed someone else's dandruff shampoo, or Motrin, I think I could cut them some slack, since you can buy most of this stuff OTC anyway.  Does that answer you question?

Kona

BlackJhack wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 11:37pm:



BJ, have you no sense of logic or deductive ability?  

1.  Yes, I went throught the state mandated LE academy.

2.  I put myself through EMT school on my own time, believe it or not there are actually EMT schools that are not "firefighter academies"  and for the record you should know that firefighters are not all Paramedics, but usually they are trained as first responders as the paramedic curiculum is quite long.  Of course you wouldn't know any of this because you are not a LE officer or a firefighter.

3.  ALL kinesiology programs result in a Bachelor of SCIENCE.  Ofcourse this is something that once again escapes your comprehension.  Yes, Kinesiology prepares you to be a P.E. (Physical Education)coach, However, we are talking about steroids which are a drug that has an effect on PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE.

4.  Pre-Law is something a University will usually do to have your course curriculum "fit in" with classes that will either prepare you for law school or have something to do with the law.  I.E. There are criminal justice whose degree can either prepare you for a Police, Corrections, Probation, Counseling or Law career by having you take courses that fit in with your chosen field.   Perhaps in your mind a person can only be good at or choose one field of study, but believe it or not many of us are actually capable of studying and being good at more than one thing.

I am sorry BJ, but you just seem to dig yourself into a bigger and bigger hole.  Look at your posts, they aren't well thought out or rational.  Take a deep breath, relax and read them for yourself and ask yourself if those are posts made by a mature individual ready to be a LE officer.  Is that the kind of professionalism you would want displayed by an LE officer.


Kona,

I am not Mr. Roid info, if I was going to state a position I would do it openly with DIMAS.  I am however, greatful he is posting as I would most likely be too lazy to look up the technical info he has posted with references to post them up for only two guys to learn.

Quote:


There is no one solution to the problem.  I was the co-facilitator for the Officer Safety course at the academy and can honestly tell you that while the hand to hand skills may work on your avg citizen, they are quite useless against a larger unwilling oponent.  I have also looked into other nationally recognized restraint techniques/programs such as PMAB and CPI and found that they are even more pathetic.

Before working in LE I was a Mental Health Technician at a treatment center and got my first great wake up call.  It often took several of us Techs to restrain only one "acting out" individual and even then a nurse was necessary to administer a cocktail to calm the person as they were likely to either escape our grasps or break their own bones, rip their own tendons and muscle in an attempt to get away from us.  Now mind you that at the facility there were at least 8 of us per shift who could immediately respond.  Out in the field it will often only be one officer with back up minutes away.

Rodney King and all the other examples of "police brutality" have had a very detrimental effect on the manner in which LE individuals can use force.  Such as you are only allowed to use your ASP on limbs, not the body or head.  Mace is a tricky one, as we have found that often it also gets in the officers eyes and blinds them as well.  "closed hand defensive strike" is the politically correct term for when an officer punches someone, but to be honest most officers avoid using this like the plague due to fear of losing their jobs.

Female officers are usually great when dealing with most people because they have learned through time to use verbal deescalation techniques due to their lack of physical strength.  Unfortunately, verbal deescalation does not work on the con looking to do hard time and then the officer is in for a real fight for their life.

What are departments/my department doing?  there really isn't much they can do.  The logic is quite simple in physical incidents the larger individual will almost always win.  Almost all departments either offer a reduced gym membership or offer gyms in each station for their officers.  The problem here is trying to find the energy to work out when working 50-60hr weeks and secondly a person's genetices/ability to actually make gains when working out.  LE officers are not allowed to use Karate or guage out eyeballs or any of a plethora of things Joe-criminal will use to get away.  If anything LE departments are more worried about a law suit and public frenzy resulting from the use of excessive force than having an officer get beat down.  It all comes down to simple economics.  

Many of you who join LE will often get a huge wake up slap in the face.  I have been very lucky in my career that I have never lost control of a situation, this is not to say that I have not been punched or given a ride for my money, but I was fortunate enough to always control the situation/person in the end and I always remember feeling very shaken up and scared for my life.  Now imagine how the officers who actually lose a confrontation must feel.  When I speak of the officers that got caught I by no means say they should be exonerated, they got caught and the punishment was probably appropriate.  What I am saying is that I can understand their decision to use them but do not agree with it.

I hope I answered your questions.

Kona, 
1. "Everyone here on these boards will be lining up to thank you/Roids for all your "facts."   
Once again let me correct you these are NOT my facts. They are published medical journals, books and doctors opinions. Which you can look up yourself.

2. Let me ask you for the 3rd time since you haven’t answered me and you stand so firm on your opinion of whoever has INJECTED them self’s roids w/o prescription should not be eligible for LE. If someone took oral roids (tablets) instead of injection should they also be banned? And if so, would it be fair to ban everyone applying that has used any type of medication without prescription? This includes: acne med., dandruff shampoo, birthcontrol, h/s Motrin, h/s Tylenol, nasal decongestant, contact lenses ETC... Since most of these medications also cause side effects if administered incorrectly?

Dimas/Roids,

You're the same guy, right?  Allow me to retort.

dimas wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 3:53pm:


Thank you for clarifying this point.  You never stated in your previous posts that the officers in question had a prescription for the steroids (this is what you are saying, correct?)  However, the point remains that these guys basically tried to circumvent the law here in the USA by going to Mexico to procure the steroids, and then sneak them across the border.  They knew they were breaking the law, and they knew they would be in big trouble if they were caught.  This does not bode well for two law enforcement officers that are sworn to uphold the laws of the land.  The fact remains that they couldn't have gotten their hands on the steroids legally here in the USA, right?

dimas wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 3:53pm:


We can just agree to disagree on this point.  Stupid mistake is a gross understatement in my opinion.  The rest of your quote is just making excuses for the officers, and trying to show everyone here that they aren't so bad compared to all the really bad officers out there.

dimas wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 3:53pm:


I don't want to beat this to death, but did they have a prescription from an American Doctor or a Mexican Doctor? Let me guess.....it was a Mexican Doctor, because no American Doctor would have written a prescription for your two buddies, correct?  It's not like they were purchasing a drug that was legal in either Mexico or the USA with the intent to save money, like so many of our senior citizens.  They were doing it because they couldn't legally get the drug here in the USA.  

Did these two dummies even consider the consequences in case they were caught?  Did they consider how it might look to the citizens of the community they serve that they were caught bringing a drug across the border that they weren't supposed to?  I would have fired both their dumb asses for a total lack of judgement and disregard for the law.  Why are you making excuses for these guys?

dimas wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 3:53pm:


You're not excusing their use of steroids, you're mearly sympathizing with them because their confidence was shaken?  Maybe it's just me, but you really sound like you're sticking up for these guys, and rationalizing their choice to take steroids.  

I'll ask you again......what is the answer to this problem?  If not hitting the weight room, and increased training in hand to hand combat skills (as I suggested), then what is your answer?  Steroids?  Talk about a credibility gap.......How about showing a little bit of credibility here and tell us all what your department is doing to help combat this problem?  Or better yet, how are you approaching this problem?  I have to tell you that I think your attitude towards this problem as a law enforcement officer is really very disappointing.  I would have expected more out of a LE professional.  

dimas wrote on Jun 15^th, 2004 at 3:53pm:


Yes, I'm sure everyone here on these boards will be lining up to thank you/Roids for all your "facts."  

Bottom line in this whole thread is:  if you injected steroids without a prescription in your lifetime, it will be a disqualifiying event for most, if not all police departments in the USA, regardless of how much you/Roids profess their safety.  

Kona

I Finally figured it out, BJ is a comedian!!

DIMAS, I will tell you from experience it is useless trying to maintain a logical conversation with BJ since his reading comprehension skills are non existent. I guess hooked on phonics DIDN'T work for him. I would venture to guess that BJ did not pass his psychological for LE. And that’s why he is so angry and combative besides the fact you can tell he’s a young kid without life experience.