Does LIECHAZER forget the fact that poly's are not submissable in a court of law? I think that speaks volumes in and of itself.

Navcat,

I only have two words to say to you: use countermeasures.   

You can go into this polygraph exam with the very best intentions, be 100% honest, and still flunk miserably.  I am living proof that countermeasures work.  I was lucky enough to get a re-test after having "problems" on some drug questions; questions which I was 100%  honest with the examiner.   

You can't afford to be naive, or believe that if you are truely 100% honest, then everything will be all right.  If you take that approach, you are rolling the dice.  Properly executed countermeasures cannot be detected; I don't care what any polygrapher says.  These guys use the polygraph as an interrogation tool to intimidate and coerce any kind of confession out of you.  He is looking for any inconsistencies in your answers when compared to your background package.  He will tell you that there is no way you can beat the machine, that it is impossible, that he will detect any countermeasures.  Absolute horse manure.   

These guys are skilled interrogators, don't fall for their BS line that everything will be fine if you are totally honest with them.   

Good luck,
Kona

LieChazer,

I note that you chose not to substantively address the questions that Skeptic put to you. Intelligent readers will draw the appropriate inference(s).

AREYOUFULLOFIT,

NO I CAN NOT CONDONE OR SUPPORT THAT KIND OF TREATMENT YOU RECEIVED FROM YOUR EXAMINATIONS.  I CAN NOT SPEAK ABOUT THAT EXAMINER.  UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S THAT TYPE OF TREATMENT TO "SCARES" POTENTIAL EXAMINEES AND "SCARS" OUR PROFESSION.  HOWEVER, YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT IF YOU DIDN'T "PASS" A SPECIFIC RELEVANT QUESTION THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHY....AGAIN YOU CAN LAY BLAME AND PROJECT YOUR RESULT ON ANYTHING OR ANYONE...BUT I URGE YOU TO LOOK INTERNALLY TO YOURSELF FOR THE PROBLEM...CAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT IS.  IF YOU FACE THAT, YOU WILL "PASS".  AGAIN, I SEE IT EVERYDAY. 

SKEPTIC,

I FEEL IT WOULD BE BETTER TO GIVE NAVCAT03 THE BEST ADVICE FOR HIS/HER INEVITABLE ENCOUNTER WITH THE USSS EXAMINATION.  WHETHER YOU OR THE OTHER ANTIPOLYGRAPH FOLKS FEEL IT'S FAIR, ACCURATE OR NECESSARY, THE POLYGRAPH IS HERE AND WILL BE HERE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.  ENDORSING COUNTERMEASURES IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE THAT IN ALL PROBABLY WILL CAUSE HIM/HER TO BE CHALLENGED AND DISQUALIFIED FOR EMPLOYMENT.   I, AS AN EXAMINER, WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY THINK HE/SHE IS AN "INNOCENT" JUST "MAKING SURE" HE/SHE "PASSES" BY USING COUNTERMEASURES.  THAT MIGHT BE UNFAIR BUT IT'S HUMAN NATURE.  I REALLY WANTED TO GIVE HIM/HER "PROFESSIONAL HELP" HE/SHE REQUESTED.  IF YOU'RE NOT AN EXAMINER YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.   

EVERYTHING NAVCAT03 WRITES ABOUT HIS/HER PROCESS SO FAR HAS BEEN FAVORABLE.  WHY COMPLICATE HIS/HER LIFE WITH WAYS TO TRY TO "CHEAT" THE POLYGRAPH...AND RUIN HIS/HER EFFORTS TO JOIN THE USSS.   WHAT THAT SPEAKS OF TO ME, IS SIMPLY AN EXAMPLE OF "MISERY WANTING COMPANY".  THE ANTIPOLYGRAPH CRUSADERS WANTING ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF POLYGRAPH SCREWING UP SOMEONE'S LIFE....CREATING A "SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY".   

I DON'T THINK POLYGRAPH IS RELIABLE FOR EVERYONE.  I BELIVE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T TAKE AND SUCCESSFULLY "PASS" THE EXAMINATION... THERE ARE MENTALLY DEFICIENT FOLKS IN THE WORLD.  I ALSO WOULDN'T WANT THAT PERSON PROTECTING NATIONAL SECURITY, WORKING AROUND NUCLEAR DEVICES OR PROTECTING MY PRESIDENT.   

I HOPE NAVCAT03 REPLIES FOLLOWING HIS/HER EXAM.  I HOPE HE/SHE HEEDS MY WORDS.  I WILL AWAIT REPLY FROM HIM/HER TO MAKE ANY FUTURE POSTS REGARDING THIS  MATTER.....BUT I WILL BE READING.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO THE BOTH OF YOU. 

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While I agree with your assessment of the USSS, I am somewhat mystified by your assertion that the polygraph ensures the "best folks are being hired".  Why do you think this, and what evidence do you have for your statement?

Additionally, I'd like to know what evidence you have to support your implication that people on this site who "failed" a polygraph must have lied.  Can you provide any, or are you simply speaking as a true believer and/or one who has a vested interest in convincing people the polygraph works as advertised?

Skeptic

Boy, are you full of it !  I have gone through many NSA
polys and now I am giving up.  Even though, I know that
I "passed" the last one, I was told that I have to go back.   How can you justify inappropriate behavior,
by some of the polygraphers, such as, pounding of the
fists, getting into peoples' faces, false accusations,
and outright lies ?  Having delt with the DoD DSS folks
for many years, for my TS,  I have never experienced 
any of inappropriate behaviors.  Now, do you really
think that people are going to be as honest with someone who acts like they just walked off the set of
NYPD Blue ?  Do you play the good or bad cop routine ?
Despite what you say, everything is sent back to DSS
for evaluation.  I guess, so much for the "you and I
against the Agency routine" ! I hope more and more
people visit these sites, to become more educated
about this farse.  How come people are not told that,
if they are rejected by certain agencies, that it could 
affect any existing clearances ?  And why now are people asked about visiting such sites, as this one ?
Running scared ?  Instead of this crap, why don't you
dig more deeply into peoples' finances ?  If you have
an existing DoD clearance, or none at all, beware
that, if you get rejected, you may be screwed from
ever getting one again.  You guys are the dishonest ones, by playing your little deceptive games.  I'll just
take my clearance, and get a better job elsewhere.

NAVCAT03,

You have invested a lot of time and energy in your desire to be part of one of this countries finest agencies..whether it's the dangerous business of protecting our leaders in this dangerous world or fighting those who would attempt to make and pass "phony" money; potentially damaging our financial infrastructure.  The USSS has a great mission.  Consequently it should want to have great people working for them.  The use of polygraph, while admittedly not  perfect, is a great tool to make sure the best folks are being hired for such an important mission.  Does this mean that the USSS agents are perfect people, heavens no.

I will tell you this, this site is full of those folks who will give advice that will most certainly result in you wasting your time and energy for the past year or so...advocates for the use of countermeasures and other suggestions to attempt to "beat" the polygraph.  You will find yourself, after the test, sitting at home, beating yourself in the forehead for attempting such a thing.   I must remind you that this web-site was not started by folks who "passed" there polygraphs, disgruntled folks who fail to reflect on their own reasons for "failing"...I haven't "passed" polygraphs the first time myself...and I knew why...and so do they!!  But. it's psychologically easier to blame the examiner or the test or the instrumentation....this is called projection.

I will also tell you that these antipolygraph folks are well researched.  It's easy to keep beating the same rhetorical drum...NSA reports, psuedoscience, etc etc...but polygraph is not going away...we (yes I'm an Examiner; not USSS) are being better trained than ever before and because of this we are better at what we do...sometimes to the chagrin of those who aren't being truthful (remember I said we always know why we don't "pass".  Which brings up an important point...not "passing" doesn't mean "failing".  There is an "inconclusive" result as well, do to insufficient responses to render an opinion; which most often can be cleared up after a subsequent test.

So if you're really looking for professional help, as stated in your first post...I'll gladly give it.  Be honest to your Examiner regarding issues that will disqualify you.  Then be confident in your honesty regarding those areas during the exam.  Yes, you might still be nervous, because you really want the job, but I promise you that your body and mind will take care of you regarding this matter....I see it everyday and I know from being in the polygraph chair myself!!!  There might be other questions used on the test to establish other areas that I'm not going to bore you with (sometimes called control or comparison questions...that are essentially designed to allow you to vent that response capability), because the technique used might be different.  Let your Examiner (the professional) explain the procedure to you...he/she can and will answer any of your questions/concerns.  I'm not telling you anything your Examiner won't explain to you.  I guarantee what you learn by the antipolygraph folks is only going to hinder your successfull completion of your exam.  Their hope is your failure will bolster their claims that polygraph is worthless and worse-damaging!!  Yes, there have been posts of those claiming successful use of "beating" the exam through countermeasures, etc, but do you really want to risk trying that stuff and risk what you have invested so far into the hiring process?  I hope not!!!

You will read of others who "claim" being wrongly accused of "failing" the polygraph..Like the "founding-fathers of this web-site....I'm going to tell you boloney...remember, I said we all know why we didn't "pass"...just ask yourself, have you ever told a lie and not know it...of course not...because we choose to lie.  The only thing different is you'll have certain components attached to you...again your Examiner will explain all of that to you.

Ask your "professional" questions to those who can "best" answer them...your Examiner.  Remember, the antipolygraph folks are folks that didn't "pass" and for the most part were never Examiners.

Finally, I'm sure the antipolygraph flood gates will now be open to criticize this post...I know that.   The rhetoric will begin....the bottom line is still that polygraph is here to stay....and you alone are going to have to take your polygraph exam to get the job you want....there are  people depending on you for their very lives!!!   Let me know how that exam went....and when (not if) you "pass" (if you have listened to what I've told you) and take your place amoung this countries best...be the best dang USSS agent you can be!!!

Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

It only takes one bad experience, and thats his.

From what I understand...(close friend's experience) the examiner may be able to tell if you're excessively nervous, and will talk to you for a bit before questioning to try to calm you down.  I'm sorry to say that being on a site like this will probably not make it any better, what with all the horror stories and stuff.  My advice to you:  go in there, tell the whole truth, and more likely than not they'll know you're being honest. I mean, think of it this way, these agencies couldn't possibly have all of these officers and agents if every single applicant had a bad experience, right?

NavCat03,

The Secret Service is arguably the most abusive law enforcement agency in America when it comes to polygraphy. Despite the fact that it is a relatively small agency, USSS job applicants report to us being falsely accused by polygraphers more often than applicants to any other agency. What is more troubling is that the former Secret Service job applicants tend to describe inappropriate behavior on the part of examiners far more frequently than applicants to other agencies. This unprofessional conduct includes, but is not limited to use of profanity, screaming, intimidating gestures, and questions regarding sex with animals. 

Quote:

If you're not concerned, perhaps you should be. You suitability is about to be evaluated via a pseudoscientific procedure that is universally opposed by scientists and academics because it has not shown to be valid when used in a screening application such as pre-employment "testing." Furthermore, if the polygrapher brands you a liar, there is virtually no avenue of appeal available.

The best way to protect yourself against a “false positive” is to learn about polygraphy. The entire procedure is based on trickery, not science.

Quote:


Put in its simplest form, the polygrapher will attempt to scare you into lying to him on questions about common human flaws like cheating in school, betraying friends, lying to loved ones, etc. He will do this by intimidating you in the pre-test interview. For example, he is likely to go on about cheating in school and college, telling you how cheaters are bad people and have no place in the Secret Service, etc .

When the actual test begins, he will compare your responses to control questions like “Have you ever cheated in college?” to relevant questions like “Are you in violation of the Secret Service policy pertaining to illegal drug use?” He will then compare your physiological responses to the two questions. If your response to the question on cheating is greater than the question on drugs, you “pass.” If the opposite is true, you “fail.” And if both are roughly the same, the “test” is judged inconclusive. Not “setting off the machine” when asked the control questions is just as bad as setting it off when asked the questions about things like illegal drug use.

Fortunately, there are ways to ensure that you show enough reaction to the control questions. Known as countermeasures, these techniques are described in detail on this site.    

I recommend reviewing the materials available for free on this Web site, starting with the polygraph FAQ (frequently asked questions), followed by The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. If you have any further questions, feel free to post them here, or via private message through the forums.

This thread has been moved to "Polygraph Policy" because it is polygraph related. The employment forums are for non-polygraph related topics.