Fair Chance:

I truly believe that you are one of the "good guys" and I applaud you for your dedication and service to our nation.

I only hope that you are in a position that allows you to mentor young recruits. Lawenforcement needs individual's such as yourself to mold the officers of the next generation.

Once again, thank you for your service.

Sincerely,

The Man in Black

Dear Man-in-Black,

I have read very closely your last response to this web.

I am a law officer.  I do not cover for any discrepencies or wrongdoings.  I am human.  I try my best.

I feel that you have been wronged.  This is a bad situation.

I have also risked my life to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies both foreign and domestic for eight years in the Armed Services of the United States Military.

I have risked my life daily to protect the citizens in my community for the last ten years without fanfare as a Federal Law Officer.

There are corporate executives who have never done either of the above and they have robbed many of millions. 

Serve the Constitution of the United States in the best capacity that you can.  Vote and write your Congressmen.  They have the real power to change what I do every day.

I do not ask forgiveness, just some understanding and compassion for I am doing the best that I can.

I apolgize if my original posting came across too extreme or anti-lawenforcement. However, I feel stongly that I am not to blame for such sentiment.

The bottom line is that the police are responsible for the negative perception that the public has towards lawenforcement! "Codes of silence," and general misconduct such as: planting evidence, unwarranted assualts and civil rights violations are allowed because of the fraternity that exist  in police agencies.

When, if ever, those who enter the lawenforcement field have the courage to defy the "code of silence" and report misconduct by fellow officers, then perhaps public opinion and individual perception of peace officers will gain a much needed lift! Until this happens, remember the old statement that "a chain is only as strong as its' weekest link!"

Despite the fact that most police officers may be honest men and women who provide a service to the public, it is both the week link in the police force, and the silent, honest, majority in the field (those who fail to report misconduct and as a result contribute to the "code of silence") who are to blame and the reason that the chain is broken!

As to how this relates to a polygraph exam, if I were an innocent person falsely accused of a crime and asked to take a lie detector (LOL), I would not grant my examiner absolute trust and, I would assume that the examiner is not my advocate due to corruption that exist in lawenforcement (even if the corruptions only applies to a minority who are employed in the field).

Why? Because police miconduct does exist and it exist not only as a result of a few corrupt lawenforecement officials. It exist, also because of the silent, honest majority who fails to report such misconduct!

Well, That all!  I have got to go! It is time to take my psychotropic meds (LOL)!

P.S.  World Series prediction: Anaheim Angels over the San Francisco Giants in 7 games! It will go 7! 

Well put.  Good luck with your endeavors.

Guest

Dear Guest:  I have learned to be a little "humble" and "passive" because I have seen the "John Wayne" syndrome in the military and federal law enforcement.  In their zeal to "prove" how tough they are, they or more likely, people around them, get hurt or killed.  A streetwise offender can instantly tell when an officer is really serious, and most of the time, it does not require a big voice or big body.  The ability to step back from a tense situation can save lives.

There are always people who are on the extremes.  I can only do my job the best that I can.  What people think of me will be what they think of me.  You are in law enforcement for your own reasons and no one else will ever quite understand why.  No matter what anyone says, you probably always will.  You got it or you don't.  If I let every negative comment ever said to me get to me, I would have been putting a gun to my head years ago.  

I only argue things that I feel I can change.  I am argueing to change the polygraph proceedure so my children do not have to go through what I did.  That is why I am on this site.

A very deep, and extremely liberal point of view.  Good for you.  Passivity in one's view point is admirable when amongst the wolves of law enforcement.  Please do not take my sarcasm too seriously, I'm only kidding you.

I also respect the point of views of others and feel free to disagree with those who I cannot see eye to eye with.  However, I have a certain amount of pride and cannot stand by and watch someone spew tripe about the ill in society that is law enforcement.  I am law enforcement as well you see.  I take no issue with this site, just outlandish claims by persons whose own agenda has tainted any real discussion.

Guest

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Dear Guest,

As a law officer and a citizen, I believe everyone has the right to their opinion.

This site is special because everyone is allowed their opinion and it is uncensored.

While I do not agree with this quote, I respect the right of anyone to voice it.

I was recruited into law enforcement because of my ability to communicate, understand, and deal with people.  In my job, I meet mostly negative aspects of life's problems.  I do my best to be morally just, ethical, and fair.  I do not shy away from hard decisions and I take responsibility for my life.  I have fought in the Armed Services for what I think are two of America's greatest freedoms:  The right to worship (or not worship) any religion without interference from the government and freedom of speech.  The moment I censor any point of view which differs from my own,  I start to turn away from the freedom that I seek to protect.

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Guest,
You're being obtuse.  I'm not attempting to generalize from one quote to the entire nature of the discussion.  You are.

Skeptic

"You'll note that Fair Chance referred to "most" of the discussions on this site.  Providing a single quote that is more wide-ranging hardly refutes this."

Does the same apply to you?

"Additionally, you implied that assisting people with "cheating" on polygraph tests is "complicity" with criminal behavior.  Perhaps -- but the same argument could be made against insisting on providing suspects with lawyers.  Makes nailing criminals more difficult, but absolutely essential to protection of the innocent."

A true crusader!  Good luck with your fight or plight.

Stohrm,

Based strictly on the limited details you've provided here, and however unpleasant your experience may have been, I don't see that your or your husbands rights have been violated in any way that would give you recourse to legal action against the polygrapher or the police detective. Nonetheless, this is a matter that you may wish to take up with a lawyer. The Martindale Lawyer Locator might be useful for finding a lawyer in your area with relevant experience.

My Husband took his today and was told he was inconclusive. I begged him not to take it after i had read the lie behind the lie dector. But he felt he had to. I told him he walked in there and they decided he wasn't going to pass. Just a little update. If anyone can help me take legal messures against the polygrapher and police detective i would appreciate it. I just need somebody to point me in the right direction. I feel that some of what they did violated our rights.
Thanks, Storhm

Quote:


You'll note that Fair Chance referred to "most" of the discussions on this site.  Providing a single quote that is more wide-ranging hardly refutes this.

Additionally, you implied that assisting people with "cheating" on polygraph tests is "complicity" with criminal behavior.  Perhaps -- but the same argument could be made against insisting on providing suspects with lawyers.  Makes nailing criminals more difficult, but absolutely essential to protection of the innocent.

Skeptic

"Trust me, if you cooperate with the police, I guarantee that your statements will be distorted or alterered to your disadvantage in the official police report.The myth that you can have absolute trust in lawenforcement officials has landed many innocent, naive, individuals in prison." - The Man in Black -

This sounds less about polygraph and more like simple bashing.  As a law enforcement officer do you agree with that statement?  If you do, why are you in law enforcement?  If not, how do you respond to that kind of statement?   

Fair Chance wrote on Oct 17^th, 2002 at 2:33am:


That's because those tools have known error rates/limitations (they've been scientifically validated and are reliable), for the most part experts in them don't make outlandish, unsuportable claims, the tools are reasonably accurate at doing what they purport to do, and the public hasn't been utterly hoodwinked by those with financial incentives to do so into believing the tests are the final word.

Skeptic

Dear Anonymous,

I am a law officer.  Most of the law officer "bashing" you notice has been related to the use of "polygraph" as a "scientific forensic tool."  The evidence from the NAS states that even the more "accurate" specific incident testing proceedure is well above chance but well below perfection (even this statement has many disclaimers about the test subject pool).  Even the best advocate of the use of polygraphy admits that the "tool" is only as good as the person giving the test.  How many years of "apprenticeship" do polygraph operators have to go through?  The problem of uniformity of test proceedures, resolution of admission conflicts (absent of video or audio recordings), and examiner bias completely skew the "objectiveness" of the test.  This tool has severe limitations.    

You do not hear disputes over DNA testing, urine analysis, ballistics, or other test used in police forensics at this site.

I only know that in my case, my integrity was tried, convicted, and executed without any other evidence or testimoney other then the interpretation of blood pressure, breathing, sweat activity, and pulse.  This would have been totally unacceptable in a court of law.  If someone were to take these measurements during my marriage cerimony,  my "I do" would certainly indicate deception, but yet I am married for many years. It would not have been a good predictor of future sucess or failure.  In the backrooms of Amercia's leading security and law enforcement agencies, guilt based only on polygraph results is common practice and occuring everyday to America's citizens who's only crime is to want to go to work for America. This was outlawed in the civilian sector years ago.  The NAS reports says it is ineffective in stopping spies and those trained experts who can circumvent the polygraph screening process.  What good "absolute security need" is it providing?  Is this the  "American" way of justice that I put my life on the line for everyday, I certainly hope not.

I began reading this site a few months ago and I am able to see some of the points presented regarding the use of polygraph, but I am weary to condone blatant mistrust of all law enforcement personnel.  Granted, there have been wrongs made to innocent people.  But the majority of cases I have studied and become familiar with do not indicate law enforcement is on a nightmarish confession binge.  In fact, I see law enforcement, on a regular basis, utilizing more and more sophisticated technology to investigate criminal activity.  Certainly, no one here would suggest we simply take a persons word when asked if they committed a crime.  Isn't it prudent to use every "legal" means available to detect, investigate, and prosecute crime?  Does this site encourage criminal behavoir by counseling suspects on how to thwart the investigative efforts of law enforcement?  I should hope not.

Your views on polygraph are well taken, but I would avoid passive complicity by not encouraging obtsruction of justice (cheating polygraph tests, not cooperating with law enforcement).  What advice do you give victims of criminals  who may be posting on your site?  I hope your fight against polygraph does not include further victimization by assiting crminals in escaping justice.

Just follow the advice from George and Beech Trees and you will be fine.

If the police and D.A. had sufficent evidence to make an arrest they would not have asked you to submit to a polygraph.

Do not become intimidated and never surrender your 5th amendment rights (go to ACLU.org to learn more about your 5th amendment rights). Trust me, the police do not give a s**t about your civiil rights and only want you to make a confesssion.

Do not be fooled! Cops are trained liars. Academy and post academy trainings encourage cops to distort the truth and even lie about evidence in an attempt to gain confessions. For example, a cop may claim that they have video tape or witnesses to support their claim aginst you, in an attempt to gain a confession. They can legally do this, even if such assertions are untrue.

In addition, Cops will do anything to gain your trust and cooperation. An example would be to claim that they believe you are innocent, but just need your statement and cooperation to close the investigation. Do not be manipulated by such assertions! Decline to take any additional polygraph exams and advise those close to you to do the same. Coopertion with the police may have undesirable consquences.

Trust me, if you cooperate with the police, I guarentee that your statements will be distorted or alterered to you disadvantage in the official police report. The myth that you can have absolute trust in lawenforcement officials has landed many innocent, naive, individuals in prison. This may sound harsh, but it is reality!

I only hope that you follow the advice that you have received from this site and that your husband declines to submit to his 10-16-02 polygraph. 

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Good advice above, Stohrm.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1. You were somehow responsible for the child's injury, in which case you would be foolish to give up your Fifth Amendment rights. I certainly hope this is not the case.

2. You were not responsible for the child's injuries, in which case you would be foolish to trust both the wildly inaccurate results of a polygraph interrogation and the honesty of the interrogator, who might with great skill weave wholecloth a tale of culpability on your part.

If the police along with the state's attorney feel they have enough evidence to arrest and charge you with a crime, then they should do so. But this nonsense of proving your innocence is pure unadulterated crap. Legally, you are ALREADY innocent and need prove nothing. Tell them to shove their polygraph.

Storhm,

First, your husband and the child's parents should refuse to submit to any polygraph "test" and seek legal advice. Polygraph "testing" is a fraud: it has no scientific basis whatsoever. It's little more than a ruse for interrogating a criminal suspect without a lawyer.

I suggest that you, your husband, and the child's parents download our free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and proceed directly to Chapter 3, which explains polygraph procedure. You need to know how these asinine "tests" really work (and don't).
 

I had to take a polygraph for a child endangerment invetigation. I babysat 2 little boys who are friends of our families. The 7 month old boy broke his arm, but not while in my care. The parents do not blame me or my husband. The doctors say it was due to him learning how to crawl and push himself up. The only people investingating this is the Killeen police dept. Both me and my husband and the kids parents have to take these horrible tests. I was the first. I was interrogated for 5 hours and was accused of many dreadful things which i have never even thought of doing. I was cornered by this hateful man who made me cry. Neither i nor my husband can undersatnd all this. Please message me with your thoughts or solutions. My husband goes for his test on Wendsday 10-16-02.     Thanks, Storhm and Bill Remillard