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It sounds like things are really starting to click for you. I'm still in the learning process as well. I just took a polygraph for a local police department and am hoping to become a police officer as well.
You couldn't even possibly imagine how much it bothers me that we have to take a polygraph to become officers. I did some stupid things in the past (long ago and nothing very serious, never set out to harm or hurt anyone...just stupid teenage stuff) that I am forced to lie about during the polygraph because it is grounds for automatic disqualification.
The problem is that I am a totally different person now. I work out almost every day, get straight A's at the university I am attending, and stay far away from getting in any trouble.
But these damn things in the past are things I am forced to lie about. It is such an upsetting situation. The polygraph comes before most opportunities for an interview, and I haven't gotton the chance to really show these commissioners what I am really all about because I failed one polygraph when I was in a good position to get hired. I wasn't aware of how the detector works at that time, but I just took another one for a different P.D. and used countermeasures on the controls. I am still waiting for the results.
I intend on using countermeasures on ALL polygraphs I may have to take. I will fail otherwise.
I used the tac in the shoe (carefully used it...don't try it)
Just letting you know there are others out there worrying like you!
Posted by: Orion Posted on: Nov 22nd, 2001 at 12:58am
Thanks netnin.... that clears things up dramatically.... the more I read about the whole procedure, the more po'ed I get... the police service where I live (and I am assuming in many other areas) talks about things such as ethics, morality and integrity and that your application will be judged using these desirable traits... they even go so far as pass out a 'core values' worksheet detailing such traits and how they relate to police work... and if you can't fit these 'core values' to your lifestyle, don't even bother applying.... ironic.
Thanks again.
Posted by: MissionPoly-ban Posted on: Nov 21st, 2001 at 11:15pm
On a PROBABLE LIE CONTROL QUESTIONS TEST, which is highly likely (I'm guessing at a 99% chance) the test you are going to take, the examiner is ASSUMING YOU WILL BE LYING on the "probable lie" control questions. It is called a "probable lie" control questions test for a reason--because it is PROBABLE that nearly all who respond by saying "no" to the controls are lying. You are being tricked by the examiners before you even got to the test! This is the whole trickery behind the probable lie control questions test.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that two control questions you will encounter on the test will be something to the effect of:
"Besides what you told me, was there anyone else that you lied to of authority?"
and
"Other than what you told me, did you steal anything else before the age of 18?"
The examiner EXPECTS YOU TO LIE or atleast doubt yourself on these questions. They expect 99% of people to atleast doubt themselves on these questions.
The only purpose the control questions serve are to show what your anxiety reaction is like. The test is BASED on control questions. The examiners AND THE POLICE COMMISSIONERS (or whatever agency you are trying to get into) DO NOT CARE (I REPEAT DO NOT CARE) about heightened reactions on controls. Heightened reactions to controls ARE WHAT THE TEST is measured by.
Simply put, if you don't have high reactions to controls you are screwed. YOU SHOULD HOPE LIKE HELL THAT YOU HAVE HIGH REACTIONS ON CONTROLS (or can possibly produce them via countermeasures).
You are entirely forgetting the fact that contol questions are broad ranging and insignificant in value and severity. They aren't issues that are grounds for disqualification (Police commissioners and examiners know and expect that nearly all people have lied to many others in the span of their lifetime...it is part of human nature to lie. They know that!).
The ONLY way you will get disqualified (as I stated earlier in another post) based on information regarding controls is if you state (IN THE PRE-TEST INTERVIEW OR POSSIBLE POST TEST INTERROGATION) or respond with extreme numbers, or admit to doing drugs recently (within the last 2 1/2 to 3 years).
Admissions (to questions that are turned into control question during the test) that will get you disqualified are things such as:
-Smoked crack for 3 years straight, last time 6 months ago or year ago. -Yeah I still smoke weed -Yeah I stoled 500$ worth from shoplifting/from old job -Yeah I stoled money from my old job (NEVER ADMIT TO TAKIN MONEY) -Yeah I drink a 12 pack every week -Yeah I have atleast a beer a day
Responses like the ones above--either during the pre-test interview or possible post-test interrogation--are the only way you will get disqualified based on admissions to questions that are turned into control questions.
And keep in mind that you should NEVER admit to something more than what you told them during the pre-test interview if they give you a post-test interrogation (basically an interview that reviews your responses and admissions).
I hope I'm not confusing you more. It seems as though you are getting a good grasp of the difference between relevant and control questions. The point you are missing--and the point I tried to make above using 10,000 words (lol) is that A DISCREPANCY BETWEEN WHAT YOU TOLD THEM IN YOUR PRE-TEST INTERVIEW/LIFESTYLE QUESTIONNAIRE AND HOW YOU REACT SPECIFICALLY ON THE CONTROLS WILL NOT GET YOU DISQUALIFIED. Ultimately, the examiners want you to react strongly to controls so that you will pass.
Think about it this way: How would discrepancies between control question reactions and what you admitted to lead to disqualification if the ONLY WAY TO PASS THE TEST IS BY HAVING HIGH REACTIONS to the control questions (higher than relevant).......? Some food for thought!
Netnin Yahoo
Posted by: Orion Posted on: Nov 21st, 2001 at 9:47pm
Ok things are makin more sense now.... I am confidesnt after reading things over and over that I could identify the questions... thanks for the pep talk Netnin.
My situation is a tad different because of the lifestyles questionairre that I fill out. If a countermeasure is used to elicit a greater response it causes a discrepancy between what I wrote on the questionairre and how i responded on the poly... which would result in a disqualification.... do you get my situation?
Thanks
Posted by: MissionPoly-ban Posted on: Nov 21st, 2001 at 12:55pm
Trout...I think you are digging too deep into the questions regarding relevant and control questions. You need to seriously sit down and beging to learn and understand the theory behind the polygraph test. By simply continuously asking questions to fellow posters on the message board, I feel you are only further confusing yourself and making this MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more complicated than it really is. Do yourself a favor and sit down and READ--as in actually reading word for word--The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. I think your confusion is stemming from the fact that you are trying to put the pieces together of a puzzle that you have never seen before. All the pieces are important, but you need to see it in its TOTALITY before you can put them all together. Get the idea? Your situation is similar to fellow poster "therock." If this is a test you plan on passing by using countermeasures, you certainly can not cheat yourself by using cheap methods of study.
Netnin
Posted by: Orion Posted on: Nov 21st, 2001 at 11:48am
Sorry to keep posting, I am still a little confused.
If a question in my pretest asks if i've ever driven drunk and i say 'no'.... even if 'no' is the truth, is it a control? I would think it relevant considering i am telling the truth. As I mentioned earlier I must fill out a background questionairre before hand.... if i write 'no' to the same question, when asked on the polygraph, it would have to be a relevant question considering any discrepancy between the two would result in a disqualification. Is this correct?
I am assuming a question like are you telling the truth on your application?' is relevant.... but how bout questions like, 'is there anything else you would like to reveal or tell me?' relevant or control?